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super shackle flip

would it be streetable if you ran a quick-release sway bar? seems like something like that could be fabbed up pretty easily on the tube bender. what do you think? could you do this to both front and rear suspensions if you had removable sway bars?? i'm kinda stoked on the idea.
 
Thanks for the link throttle
I have seen these or something similar at deaver springs and will be instaling them front and rear.
I also remember reaqding an article with carbon fiber or fiberglass springs installed on a jeep and they also ran the spring bushings.
 
Did a quick search and found the link but i guess if a major company is selling them and recomending them for street use it cant be done and is not safe?
 
would it be streetable if you ran a quick-release sway bar? seems like something like that could be fabbed up pretty easily on the tube bender. what do you think? could you do this to both front and rear suspensions if you had removable sway bars?? i'm kinda stoked on the idea.

The problem with this setup isn't sway, so a sway bar won't help the problem I'm suggesting.

With the joint at either end of the spring, you are relying on the spring only to provide lateral stability. The spring will twist and let the axle move side-to-side under the truck.

With bushings at each end, the bushings have to compress before the spring even thinks about twisting. This adds a lot of lateral stability compared to the jointed setup.

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about and what will happen when you take a turn:

joints.jpg



You can see that with the flex joint there is nothing there keeping the spring from twisting and allows the axle to move all over the place. The bushing keeps the spring flat.



Replacing a bushing with a flex joint will make a negative impact on how the truck drives on the street. The severity of the change depends on the springs they are attached to; a shorter, thicker spring pack with all the leaves tied together will resist the twisting but it won't flex well and that was the point in this whole idea, right?

Its easy to get TONS of suspension travel out of leaf springs with bushings and IMO, the flex joints simply aren't worth the cost and hassle.
 
The problem with your drawing is you still envision a spherical joint at the top of the shackle(with shackle flip). That's where the instability comes from, because the shackle is allowed to shift. Deaver only uses them in the spring eyes, not at the shackle to frame connection. That's why theirs is stable on the street and in desert racing, which is kinda their specialty.:rolleyes:
 
The problem with your drawing is you still envision a spherical joint at the top of the shackle(with shackle flip). That's where the instability comes from, because the shackle is allowed to shift. Deaver only uses them in the spring eyes, not at the shackle to frame connection. That's why theirs is stable on the street and in desert racing, which is kinda their specialty.:rolleyes:

To me it would seem that it would perform the same if the joint is at the top or bottom of the shackle :confused:
 
A joint on the bottom of the shackle only allows the spring to twist, without letting the axle deflect sideways any more than normal. A joint at the top would allow the shackle to swing under the frame, and the axle would shift sideways as the spring twists.
 
so if i start a new trend with this question and a company makes a kit, just pm me for info on where to send my trial kit and the rest of you can send my royalties. . .

lol just kidding, but i bet we could make this work.
 
A joint on the bottom of the shackle only allows the spring to twist, without letting the axle deflect sideways any more than normal. A joint at the top would allow the shackle to swing under the frame, and the axle would shift sideways as the spring twists.

There is some validity to that, but the upper bushings will have lots more leverage on them because there isn't a bushing on the bottom. This will still be squirrely on the road.

The couple Toyotas that I have been in that had these joints had them at the bottom of the shackle at the spring and like I said before, the joints make the truck squirrely on the road. The truck was fine on the road before adding the joints and the road handling changed noticeably after.


Anyway, I'm done commenting in this thread. I made the point I wanted to.
 
You know what? That was rude of me. It just seems like 38377K5 and I never agree on anything. I apologize.;)
 
The problem with this setup isn't sway, so a sway bar won't help the problem I'm suggesting.

With the joint at either end of the spring, you are relying on the spring only to provide lateral stability. The spring will twist and let the axle move side-to-side under the truck.

With bushings at each end, the bushings have to compress before the spring even thinks about twisting. This adds a lot of lateral stability compared to the jointed setup.

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about and what will happen when you take a turn:

joints.jpg



You can see that with the flex joint there is nothing there keeping the spring from twisting and allows the axle to move all over the place. The bushing keeps the spring flat.



Replacing a bushing with a flex joint will make a negative impact on how the truck drives on the street. The severity of the change depends on the springs they are attached to; a shorter, thicker spring pack with all the leaves tied together will resist the twisting but it won't flex well and that was the point in this whole idea, right?

Its easy to get TONS of suspension travel out of leaf springs with bushings and IMO, the flex joints simply aren't worth the cost and hassle.
i thought a sway bar does affect lateral movement? maybe i don't know how they work. i was envisioning a "u" shaped tube that is attached to the frame and the axle tube, with pivoting points at the ends of the "u" as well as on the back of the "u". the legs of the "u" would be attached to the axle. of course, this wouldn't really allow for any articulation what so ever - how does a normal sway bar work? maybe instead of a "u" shape, you could have 2 "L's", one facing each way to look like a "u", but could allow each side to articulate a little bit to allow for a more comfortable street ride.

thoughts?
 
dammit, throttleissues! :mad:

now he'll not respond to my post... which is valid, i think. :(

asshole! :haha:
 
dammit, throttleissues! :mad:

now he'll not respond to my post... which is valid, i think. :(

asshole! :haha:

Sorry, bro!:o The sway bar is only to balance the vertical suspension movement by transferring some load to the unloaded side. Essentially it's a torsion bar linking the 2 sides of the axle. As one side rises(susp compression) the bar tries to lift the other side of the axle. The bar is not designed to control lateral movement of the axle, but the way it is set up stock on these trucks could inadvertently limit lateral movement because they have no links on the ends.
A track bar is designed to control the lateral movement in a non- triangulated link suspension by attached to the frame on one side and the axle on the other. If the angle and length are closely matched to the drag link(crossover), it also eliminates bump steer.:D
I know you didn't really want my opinion, but I gave it to you anyway.:tongue1::D
 
You know what? That was rude of me. It just seems like 38377K5 and I never agree on anything. I apologize.;)

You didn't piss me off or anything, I just didn't feel like continually arguing the same points. I put out there what I believe to be the way it all works and what I've seen on other people's rigs, people can make their own decisions. No hard feelings ;)



i thought a sway bar does affect lateral movement? maybe i don't know how they work. i was envisioning a "u" shaped tube that is attached to the frame and the axle tube, with pivoting points at the ends of the "u" as well as on the back of the "u". the legs of the "u" would be attached to the axle. of course, this wouldn't really allow for any articulation what so ever - how does a normal sway bar work? maybe instead of a "u" shape, you could have 2 "L's", one facing each way to look like a "u", but could allow each side to articulate a little bit to allow for a more comfortable street ride.

thoughts?



throttleissues covered it :D
 
dammit. i didn't feel like reading all the bs... now you're telling me i gotta go back and sift thru it all for my answer?? c'mon! where's the ck5 brotherly love? maybe i shoulda started my post with asking if you can fit 35's w/ 4" lift...

:wink1:
 
dammit. i didn't feel like reading all the bs... now you're telling me i gotta go back and sift thru it all for my answer?? c'mon! where's the ck5 brotherly love? maybe i shoulda started my post with asking if you can fit 35's w/ 4" lift...

:wink1:

He answered it in his last post, I fully agree with that part.
 
Theres a REAL easy answer to this. To use the flip kit as pictured, safely, you simply need to add a panhard bar. Then it doesn't matter where the johnny joint is, in fact, you're better off with it in the upper half of the shackle.
 

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