Swap in 3/4 T axles? 4" lift? Or...?

[meanboyjr]

I need my rig to function as a DD for a few more months, so this isn't pressing. Just gathering info at the moment, curious what the brotherhood has to say.

My '76 is bone stock, 350/350, NP 203, D44 and 12b. Looking to lift it to run 35s without much body trimming. Thinking about turning it into a mostly trail rig, still need to drive it on the street from time to time. The options I've come up with so far are as follows:

1) 4" spring lift (with 1" zero-rates from ORD if needed) to clear 35s. New gears and axles for the D44/12b.

1a) Same as above with crossover steering.

1b) Same as above, with high-steer.

My worries about the stock axle combo is that it won't survive the larger tires, hence the axle upgrade.

2) Running gear from a 3/4 ton with a 4" spring lift (also, zero-rates from ORD if needed). New gears.

2a) Same as above, with crossover steering

2b) Same as above, with high-steer.

Also, thinking about running a 203/205 doubler since I already have a 203 for the range box and finding a 205 would be relatively easy. I would like to think about one of the new fancy Magnum boxes from ORD (not cheap @ nearly 2k, but that 5.33:1 low sure looks SWEET). Either way, I'll have to do something with the t-case since the 203 isn't going to cut it on the trail.

Any input, ideas, questions, comments, etc. appreciated.

 

[muddermilitia]

4" with 35s will require no trimming in the rear and only a little trimming to the front. High-steer puts a lot more stress on your pass side knuckle so keep that in mind. 3/4 ton axle swap will be much cheaper than gearing and building up a D44/12b. But the 3/4 ton front axle you swap in will be either a 10b or D44 so you are only gaining 8-lug and a little better brakes. What gear ratio are you looking to upgrade to? 3/4 ton axles can be found with 4.10s pretty easily

 

[meanboyjr]

4" with 35s will require no trimming in the rear and only a little trimming to the front. High-steer puts a lot more stress on your pass side knuckle so keep that in mind. 3/4 ton axle swap will be much cheaper than gearing and building up a D44/12b. But the 3/4 ton front axle you swap in will be either a 10b or D44 so you are only gaining 8-lug and a little better brakes. What gear ratio are you looking to upgrade to? 3/4 ton axles can be found with 4.10s pretty easily

Clearance is one reason I was considering the zero-rates (or a 1" body lift).

I'm flexible with the gearing...Yukon has pretty much whatever I might need, if I re-gear the stock pieces. The 4.10s in the 3/4 ton stuff will certainly work if I can find them.

It's true that the 3/4 T axles aren't really that much of an upgrade over what I'm running, but my other option is a D60/14sf or ff.

Regarding the high-steer, I figured I could upgrade to Dedenbear knuckles if needed. I also don't know if I need to run high-steer, it was just an option I penciled out. (If I stayed with the stock D44, I was assuming I would just have the knuckle machined and use it until it broke.)

 

[496truck]

Go with option 2a.

The 10b front (D44 equivalent, arguably slightly better than a D44) is a decent axle for 35s, just do the full circle clip mod to the axle joints. The 14sf rear is no slouch either even if it is a c-clip design. Obviously a 14ff rear isn't hard to find either. I'm just going by what can be found cheap to free in a typical 3/4 truck being parted out.

The larger brakes found on the 3/4 ton stuff is a huge upgrade vs the stock brakes. You will want those larger brakes if you get that doubler installed, not to mention street stopping power with the larger tires. Larger brakes are never a bad upgrade.

You will save money finding a set of 4.10 geared 3/4 tons and be able to use that money towards better steering. Plus 4.10s and 35s will work quite well with your TH350. And I will add that x-over is almost a "must have" if you plan on wheeling this truck. I've been in too many situations now where I've needed more steering input and just didn't have anything left because of the stock push/pull design.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with high steer. I can only think of one time where my tie rod became an anchor, and that's because it was a really rocky and rutted trail. There were so many rocks it was hard to keep track and once they disappeared below the hood line it was hard to remember which way to point the tires to get over them. But ORDs HD tie rod didn't even flinch when that rock grabbed it.

From someone who's running 3/4 tons, 35s and 4" lift and I wheel the truck pretty good... that's my 2c.

 

[dremu]

It's true that the 3/4 T axles aren't really that much of an upgrade over what I'm running, but my other option is a D60/14sf or ff.

Just to clarify, a 3/4 ton rear IS a 14 bolt, and IS an upgrade from your existing stuff. In fact, your ideal donor would be a 3/4-ton as the axle bolts up, then, as opposed to the 1-ton which does not.

The front would be the same D44 (or 10 bolt, same difference), though as mentioned the 8-lug outers have the bigger brakes.

But the back would be a 14-bolt of some variety which is a huge plus in my book.

-- A

 

[SuperMidget]

My last dd/mud toy was a 77 GMC... 3.73 geared stock axles held up fine to mud racing/trail riding and dd duty on 4" lift and 35x15.50x15 tsl sx's... only problems I has was busting a 203 and had a pinion bearing go out in the rear that made noises for weeks I never bothered to fix... then I swapped in a set of 4.10 geared 10 bolts out of an 80s k5 that I believe the new owner is still running with now

 

[meanboyjr]

Just to clarify, a 3/4 ton rear IS a 14 bolt, and IS an upgrade from your existing stuff. In fact, your ideal donor would be a 3/4-ton as the axle bolts up, then, as opposed to the 1-ton which does not.

The front would be the same D44 (or 10 bolt, same difference), though as mentioned the 8-lug outers have the bigger brakes.

But the back would be a 14-bolt of some variety which is a huge plus in my book.

-- A

You are correct, sir. I was mainly thinking about the front D44/10b, but yes, the 14b sf/ff would be a huge upgrade out back.

 

[meanboyjr]

Go with option 2a.

The 10b front (D44 equivalent, arguably slightly better than a D44) is a decent axle for 35s, just do the full circle clip mod to the axle joints. The 14sf rear is no slouch either even if it is a c-clip design. Obviously a 14ff rear isn't hard to find either. I'm just going by what can be found cheap to free in a typical 3/4 truck being parted out.

The larger brakes found on the 3/4 ton stuff is a huge upgrade vs the stock brakes. You will want those larger brakes if you get that doubler installed, not to mention street stopping power with the larger tires. Larger brakes are never a bad upgrade.

You will save money finding a set of 4.10 geared 3/4 tons and be able to use that money towards better steering. Plus 4.10s and 35s will work quite well with your TH350. And I will add that x-over is almost a "must have" if you plan on wheeling this truck. I've been in too many situations now where I've needed more steering input and just didn't have anything left because of the stock push/pull design.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with high steer. I can only think of one time where my tie rod became an anchor, and that's because it was a really rocky and rutted trail. There were so many rocks it was hard to keep track and once they disappeared below the hood line it was hard to remember which way to point the tires to get over them. But ORDs HD tie rod didn't even flinch when that rock grabbed it.

From someone who's running 3/4 tons, 35s and 4" lift and I wheel the truck pretty good... that's my 2c.

Thanks for the input, it's all appreciated...especially since you're running the same setup.

I'm adding the ORD HD tie-rod to the list of good stuff.

 

[chulisohombre]

I would run what you got til it breaks. The Dana 44 front will be ok but the 12 bolt is the weaker point. I blew up two of them then went 3/4 ton. But it took 3 years to blow up those two axles. If you are doing easy trails and road driving they will last ok. It's when you beat on them they start to fall apart. My 72 is already sort of high steer with the tie rod going in from the top instead of bottom like newer trucks. It doesn't hit rocks too bad. Crossover will help a lot in the rocks if you are going hardcore but my stock system is adaquate for the easy trails I drive on. I just have a raised steering arm and stock box and pump. Works fine for most situations.

 

[paratrooper307]

I went with 3/4 ton axles when I put on a 4 inch lift and 33's. They bolt right in and give an extra measure of strength. The downside is that you have to figure on purchasing 8 lug wheels. The axle swap is much cheaper than a regear, but be aware that new seals, bearings, ball joints, brake parts, u-joints and all the maintenance that is easiest to do before you swap in the axles can nickel and dime you on expenses. Mine was a 4.10 ratio, which I have found to be ideal for my setup. Crossover steering is definitely a plus for wheeling.

 

[496truck]

That's a good point. I had the axles sitting in the garage on stands for a year before I swapped them in. During that time I would buy a couple ball joints or some seals or some brake parts or whatever. Eventually I even wire brushed them down and painted them real nice. And when they went under the truck it was like a brand new set of axles going under there.

 

[paratrooper307]

That's a good point. I had the axles sitting in the garage on stands for a year before I swapped them in. During that time I would buy a couple ball joints or some seals or some brake parts or whatever. Eventually I even wire brushed them down and painted them real nice. And when they went under the truck it was like a brand new set of axles going under there.

That was my situation. Picked up the axles when I happened to find a good deal on Craigslist. A brake job here, new ball joints there, etc. Plus the front axle had been in a truck that had been submerged and the entire housing was full of a nasty mixture of mud and gear oil that took a bit of time to clean to my satisfaction. Bonus was at least it had a lockrite in it.

 

[meanboyjr]

I would run what you got til it breaks. The Dana 44 front will be ok but the 12 bolt is the weaker point. I blew up two of them then went 3/4 ton. But it took 3 years to blow up those two axles. If you are doing easy trails and road driving they will last ok. It's when you beat on them they start to fall apart. My 72 is already sort of high steer with the tie rod going in from the top instead of bottom like newer trucks. It doesn't hit rocks too bad. Crossover will help a lot in the rocks if you are going hardcore but my stock system is adaquate for the easy trails I drive on. I just have a raised steering arm and stock box and pump. Works fine for most situations.

Actually, that was my very first thought - just add the lift to the stock axles, swap in a t-case, and wheel it until something broke.

Of course, I started thinking along the lines of, "well, if I have to do this, I might as well do this..." and realized that swapping in the 3/4t gear was not that much extra work.

I went with 3/4 ton axles when I put on a 4 inch lift and 33's. They bolt right in and give an extra measure of strength. The downside is that you have to figure on purchasing 8 lug wheels. The axle swap is much cheaper than a regear, but be aware that new seals, bearings, ball joints, brake parts, u-joints and all the maintenance that is easiest to do before you swap in the axles can nickel and dime you on expenses. Mine was a 4.10 ratio, which I have found to be ideal for my setup. Crossover steering is definitely a plus for wheeling.

The swap to 8 lugs doesn't bother me, as I have a few options, one of them being using the wheels from the donor rig. Black Rock, Cragar, Pro Comp, etc., all make relatively inexpensive steel wheels too.

That's a good point. I had the axles sitting in the garage on stands for a year before I swapped them in. During that time I would buy a couple ball joints or some seals or some brake parts or whatever. Eventually I even wire brushed them down and painted them real nice. And when they went under the truck it was like a brand new set of axles going under there.

One of the benefits about this "project" is that time isn't an issue for me. I could easily pick up the running gear and work on it piecemeal until it was all ready to go under the truck. Then again, when I'm ready to start, I will have a bit of $$ saved up and ready to go, so I might be able to just do the work that needs to be done.


Thanks for the input, guys. It's interesting to hear other takes on this sort of build.

 

[chulisohombre]

The might as well bug sucks when it hits you. If u had to do over I'd probably do the same thing but would do a standard brakes in the rear instead of the caddi calipers that I did with it. The ebrake is marginal at best but the brakes stop much better with being disk all the way around. I didn't think it would be such a pain to keep them adjusted to work correctly. Don't know if you decided on hat way you wanted to go but I would have done 1/2 ton front calipers and a HAD driveshaft ebrake. If the drums you get are still good I would stick with them as they are bigger than your stock brakes and will still stop better than stock too. If you got the money to do it by all means do it and rebuild them before you put them in. I also made the mistake if buying parts and letting them sit too long before installation. I bought a Detroit and when I finally installed it a year later when I had all my parts together the warrantee was up on it already and I broke it after 3 months. So no free replacement and I had to go back to stock spiders in my 14ff. Just a few things to think about.

 

[meanboyjr]

The might as well bug sucks when it hits you.

Thankfully, I'm just gathering the info at this point. No money has left the wallet...


yet.

 

[chulisohombre]

Yea it's tough to not buy it all and beef it up. I got 8 grand into mine and its barely roadworthy. Not sure if it would pass inspection.

 

[82355]

Other than full time four wheel drive being annoying to drive, and the shifter sucking, what is so bad about the NP203? Don't get me wrong I hate them, but they will hold up just fine.

Martin

 

[82355]

As far as the emergency brakes with discs on a 14bff, someone had a link to a dual caliper setup a while back that seemed like it would work.

Martin

 

[meanboyjr]

Other than full time four wheel drive being annoying to drive, and the shifter sucking, what is so bad about the NP203? Don't get me wrong I hate them, but they will hold up just fine.

Martin

If mine was in good shape, I'd probably leave it alone until I broke it. As it stands right now, it really needs freshening up or a rebuild.

And, as previously stated, I've got the "might as well" bug...

I figured any money I threw at the stock t-case would be money I could use for something bigger/better/lower geared. But you're right, I could certainly run the 203 with the axles & tire combo I want and it would probably be fine.



Did I mention the ORD Magnum Box looks freakin' sweet?