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TBI Questions

kgblazerfive

kgblazerfive

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Ok so the Burb didn't pass emissions and can rejet the carb to get it to work however was offered a good trade for a 454 TBI. I have a painless wire harness for a TBI, I have put a 350 TBI where a 4.3 TBI was so have some experience in what the swap needs.

However have some questions

Do you have to run a fuel return line from the TBI, if so does it have to go back to the tank ? Can it just go back to the inlet for the pressure line or the old vent line or something like that?

Is the E2000 the best pump to get ? as in cheapest easiest to find and replace etc.
(I will not run a in the tank pump, way to much of a hassel I am not dropping the tank to do this swap I will rejet it first) :D

Who makes a programable chip or something for a TBI, I have a lap top and want to play :D
My main reason for that is I have no idea what is done to my motor and I would like to be able to do some changes if I could.
 
Yes TBI must have a return line to the tank You can use the vent fitting. If you use the vent fitting be sure to get a vented cap.
E2000 pump will work and is the cheapest.
But
They are not self priming and were orginally designed to be used with a low volume intank pump. They will work fine without the other pump
But
If you dont use a intank pump and you loose the prime (like sidehill with a 1/4 tank) and the pump sucks air. The engine will die and you may have to manually reprime it. So the E2000 should be mounted lower than the bottom of the fuel tank so it can keep the prime better.
TBI pumps like the carter P5001 or walbro GSL395 are self priming and IMO work better than E2000 for offroad use. But they cost more.
What ever external inline pump you use be sure to put a filter or screen between the tank and the pump. And use a high pressure fuel injection filter after the pump.

If you want to burn your own chips. You will need a burner and chips. You can get all you need from herehttp://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=73_64
 
Does anybody make a computer or chip that is progamable on the run or do youhave to burn a new chip everytime you need to make changes
 
kgblazerfive said:
Does anybody make a computer or chip that is progamable on the run or do youhave to burn a new chip everytime you need to make changes
Click to expand...

I decided to use a chip emulator. http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=169

If you have an early version TBI ECM (before 1992) the use of the Socket Booster is required with the chip emulator. http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=171

I have a 1993 GMC K1500, so I was able to use a chip adapter http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=32 and plug the chip emulator into the chip adapter.

The chip emulator lets you change the PROM program while you are DRIVING!!!:D

Another option is to use the Embedded Lockers (EBL) system from Dynamic EFI http://www.dynamicefi.com/

The Dynamic EFI system has data logging software included, so it's easy to tune the PROM for engine mods like headers and performance cams.

dave w
 
You can buy an emulator from Moates which allows you to make changes on the fly and then "burn" a chip once you're happy. This however requires using a 28 pin chip rather than a 24 pin chip so some work needs to be done (either by you or by someone who has good soldering skills). I elected to send an extra ECM to Moates and have them do the soldering job for me. I have everything needed to read, burn or emulate my own chips but haven't gotten to doing so yet. Everything you need will cost you around $300.00 or so.
 
So correct me if I'm wrong but the system from Dynamic efi is like a Edelbrock or Holley system that you can run and tune with a computer, just a lot cheaper and uses some factory parts.
 
kgblazerfive said:
So correct me if I'm wrong but the system from Dynamic efi is like a Edelbrock or Holley system that you can run and tune with a computer, just a lot cheaper and uses some factory parts.
Click to expand...

The Dynamic EFI system is ONLY a re-designed / re-engineered / re-worked ECM re-using most of the factory ECM hardware / parts. The Dynamic EFI System includes software to "tune" the "PROM". The Dynamic EFI System does not really have a PROM, but instead uses a "Flash PROM" like the newer ECM's designed after 1996. The "Flash PROM" means there is no need to do chip swapping, or chip emulation. The Dynamic EFI System provides software for a Laptop computer to program the "Flash PROM".

For the early TBI ECM's (1992 and BEFORE) the Dynamic EFI System offers many improvements and features that are were not available until OBD II. The Dynamic EFI Systems provides an interface for the 700R4 overdrive automatic transmission. The Dynamic EFI System DOES NOT provide an interface for electronic overdrive automatic transmissions (4L60E / 4L80E). Starting in 1993 GM began using electronic overdrive transmissions in the C/K pickups. I would not recommend using the Dynamic EFI System for 1993 and newer GM C/K pickups that are using an electronic overdrive transmission.

dave w
 
Well mine will be going in a 454/Th400/203/205 so its going to be the most electronically advanced part in the truck.
 
Ok,
Dynamic EFI would be an option.

My choice for a 454 would be factory multi-port fuel injection.

Sell the TBI stuff for big bucks, buy the 454 factory multi-port fuel injection parts for small bucks, and use the left over cash for some gas.

dave

DSCN2261.JPG

DSCN2007.JPG

'7730 ECM - V6 Harness - V8 Small Cap HEI & Coil.JPG

DSCN2189.JPG

DSCN2190.JPG
 
Well the TBI I don't even own yet friend wants to trade for my carb cuz it runs very well on hill and his doesn't and he has the complete TBI set up for a BB. I also have a painless TBI wireing harness NIB that i have yet to use so i thought it might be a good idea to get the TBI and use the harness.

Is the new stuff easier to set up and use or just all around better.
 
I totally get the "keeping to a limited budget" / "make the best of what you have on hand":)

Just a couple weeks ago, I saw a complete 454 multi-port system on eBay sell for only $202 plus $30 for shipping. Local to me, I've seen 454 TBI throttle bodies sell for $250 ~ $300 depending on the condition. Anyway, wires are wires, I've re-configured several TBI harness to work on TPI's. Local to me, I can get a good used TBI harness for less than $50. I spend about $20 in parts on the TBI harness to re-configured for TPI.:D Yes, I admit, I spend about 6 ~ 8 hours re-configuring the TBI harness. Yes I have to solder a few wires and / or re-pin some connectors. In my humble opinion the copper wire used in the factory harness is very very superior to the wire used by the aftermarket harness companies, including the "Not so PAINLESS" brand. (Once you use a Painless Harness, you will 100% understand why the knick-name "Not so Painless") The harness and computer I used for my 454 Multi-Port system was from a FWD V6 car ($20)... like I said wires are wires ... just knowing where the wires go, well that's what schematics are for.:)

dave w
 
Ok money isn't really an issue, not to say I have ton to waste but I like doing things once and then not have to worry about it.

If the TBI will work for me as in enough CFM, and tuneability with the dynamic kit and because I have the wireing for it, then I will go that route.

If the multi port has the same ability and better results then I can go that route.

The only other systems that I have looked at are the $2500 ones from Holley and Edelbrock and I would have to burn through alot of gas in the morning warming it up to make that worth while.
 
The factory 454 multi-port system I put together used the older TPI electronics (Batch Fire ECM / Wiring Harness), combined with newer 454 Vortec hardware (Upper - Lower intake / Fuel Rail / Throttle Body). I made up my own Sequential to Batch Fire conversion wiring harness for the 454 Vortec injectors wiring harness. So really all I did was make a batch fire 454 TPI system ... which is WAYYYYYYYYY better than TBI?:confused:

Using the Dynamic EFI ECM will require some pin changes to the Painless ECM connectors. The Dynamic EFI ECM could be used for the 454 Vortec system with the port fuel injection option ( a few extra $$), and still use the TBI harness you have. The 454 Vortec throttle body uses a different IAC and TPS connector. With a sequential to batch fire conversion harness, and the two throttle body connectors changes the Painless harness could be used with the Dynamic EFI and the 454 Vortec multi-port fuel injection hardware.

Just letting you know one possible option before you start into the EFI conversion.:)

dave w
 
Would I be better off uesing the factory TBI harness, I think I might have one for a small block and might be able to get one from the same place as the other TBI set up
 
I've read up on Dynamic EFI ... a good option ... but I have a 4L60E automatic transmission.

Yes - The Painless Harness need some minor modifications to use the Dynamic EFI for either TBI or Multi-Port. http://www.dynamicefi.com/RePinHowTo.php

Yes - The 454 TBI throttle body Idle Air Control Solenoid (IAC)connectors are different than 350 TBI throttle body Idle Air Control Solenoid connectors. There are conversion connectors that can be purchased / fabricated to allow using the 454 TBI with a wiring harness that is made for the 350 TBI.

The Multi-Port mod for the Dynamic EFI http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_PortMod.php

Sure, I can help out with a wiring harness, custom PROMs, freeware chip tuning software, freeware data logging software, share my notebook of information from my 454 multi-port project, but maybe we should PM each other on those topics?

dave w
 
cool let me get it through emissions today then go and take a look at the TBI stuff and we will go from there, what part of Washington are you in
 
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