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tension shackle vs flip

Babaganoosh

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I'm coming to find out a shackle flip isn't as great as I thought it was. I'm finding out a tension shackle is better for long travel springs. I'm going to be building my rear soon and can't find a answer as to why the tension is better. I'm assuming it allows for more droop? But why?
 
I hope someone can chime in here with real tech. Most desert guys need lots of compression rebound is less important. Tension style allows a higher arching the spring allowing more compression while preventing the spring from going negative arch.
 
Here's the deal:
The tension shackle works great with lower lift springs and especially with higher end springs like our custom stuff. The reason why is that when the spring goes to full droop the shackle pulls forward and lays down roughly horizontal so the tail of the spring is dropping 4-6" depending on the actual shackle length. This is 2-3" of "free" droop travel. With a compression shackle at full compression the rear spring elevation is basically the same as it is at full droop so you don't get that extra droop travel. But there are some buts...

With our custom springs, we can only get to about 4" of lift in a 52" rear spring with the tension shackle before the arch gets high enough that it's hard to even get the spring to bolt in. We can hit 6" of lift or a little more in a 64" spring. At this point we use a longer shackle which gives you more of the droop effect and requires even more arch in the spring so it's a balancing act.

In the regular "lift kit" spring world, we've seen good results with springs up to 4" of lift with the tension shackle but when the arch gets deeper the springs are generally so much stiffer that you're better off with a shorter arch spring and a shackle flip.

This all depends on having urethane bushings in the spring eyes so that everything can rotate freely. As soon as you have a rubber bushing or a binding urethane bushing this all goes out the window.

In a lower lift world the shackle flip shines for economy and reasonable performance. Given lifted spring prices, the $200-ish for a shackle flip is attractive if you have a decent stock spring to start with. Once you get over about 4" of lift the shackle flip/lifted spring combo rules since spring arches stay reasonable and realistically you can't even get a rear spring over 8" of lift so if you want more than that without a block you have to run the flip.

The tension shackle has some desirable effects on spring rate as the suspension cycles that are possible to approximate with a compression shackle but it requires a bit more finesse. Basically it's hard to screw up a tension shackle system but easy to screw up a compression shackle system. In the real world as long as you stay away from extreme angles with a compression shackle this last point is not really that important.

I also think there are some handling details that go back and forth. A deeper arch spring is going to have more roll steer but a compression shackle system is usually set up around at least one factory mount and it can mess with handling through axle steer also. These are the really fine details that don't really make a difference to 99% of the world.

clear as mud?
 
Perfect, thank you Stephen. I wanted to call you, but having a hard time finding the time while you guys are open. I should have the rear in this weekend and will be able to get the measurements you need.:thumb:
 
I hope someone can chime in here with real tech. Most desert guys need lots of compression rebound is less important. Tension style allows a higher arching the spring allowing more compression while preventing the spring from going negative arch.

This starts getting into other points a little to the side of tension vs. compression but here is a little on that...

I don't fully subscribe to the "reverse arch is bad" theory but I have a good deal of respect for the ones that preach it so I don't throw it out. After working with our beloved GM front springs for so long I can practically say that reversing the arch doesn't seem to be that bad. Lower lift fronts ride essentially flat and take a serious reverse arch on compression and still live a long happy life.

I think the idea that there should be a different bias for "desert" use vs. the rest of the world sells the rest of the world a little short. I'm pretty big on ride quality since it's a major factor in just enjoying your time in the truck offroad and you have to have reasonable compression travel to be comfortable and it's nice if you don't hit the limit of that travel like hitting a wall. This is where extreme shackle angles on compression shackle systems drive me nuts. I'm not at all willing to give up a reasonable ride (by giving up compression travel) to pick up a little droop travel.
 
The reason why is that when the spring goes to full droop the shackle pulls forward and lays down roughly horizontal so the tail of the spring is dropping 4-6" depending on the actual shackle length. This is 2-3" of "free" droop travel.



That's what I meant. I just like using simple man terms :whistle:
 
Stephen you are the man. Thank you so much, would it 've easier to contact you by email or is phone best?
 
Your version is quite a bit more concise. You missed a couple details though. :pimp:



All I knew was that they can lay down more giving more droop. Other than that I figured id let the details up to you :D
 
Stephen you are the man. Thank you so much, would it 've easier to contact you by email or is phone best?

depends on the question and the urgency. Email is guaranteed to take a little while but the phone may too depending on the day. Keep in mind too that I'm not the only one here that can help with most things and even pretty heavy tech stuff so call and ask and we'll figure it out. Stuff like this, this post isn't a bad way to do this since more people get the benefit of your questions. And you get to learn from their questions. And I might too.
 
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