Testing winch solenoid? Harbor Frieght wireless remote??

[K85 Octane]

Well, my winch worked for BB. Between it working and not working, there was a couple water crossings and very very large splashes.

Could have used it last Sunday after those splashes.

Anyway, I pushed the switch remote this morning and for a second it worked, then stopped again. I've got nothing, no clicking for either side.

Here's a picture of the solenoids. The red and blue arrows are switched together from the remote. Can I simply jump my battery positive (red wire) to each of these smaller one? Should I hear the relays click, or even use a continuity tester. The circle in the center has wires all connected together. One of these goes back to the remote but doesn't seem to be switched with the button.

 

[Fordum]

Man, I tried to post before you went offline, but I was posting about my yellowjackets and could not break off.

If you can relate this to your system, this should tell you how to test them.

Note the switch turns on two solenoids at a time. The solid green line is one direction, and the dotted is the other direction.

The solid red and dotted red lines are those heavy jumpers.

That should help you ID which is which.

 

[K85 Octane]

Looks like the battery cable farthest to the right goes to that "A" terminal. It's the only one touching "non-powered" solenoids and seems to follow J's picture. (sorry, away from truck) So that makes sense.

My solenoids have the 4 post. So my brown wires that come off the negative side of the relay head back to the remote plug. The plug also has a black wire that seems to go straight to ground. I'll need to test it, but it sounds like my brown wires either go straight to ground when the remote is plugged in or are switched with the power side of the remote.

I think I'll leave the remote off and find some wire to "act" as my remote. I'll jump the brown and black wires for my relay grounds. Then jump the red and green/white wires to spin the motor.

I'm wondering if it's even a solenoid problem. I get nothing. I could have 3 relays fail, but as long as one of the power side relays work....I should still get a click. This is the first time I've left the remote plugged in while wheeling. I've splashed through water before but never with it plugged in. I wonder if that could have something to do with it.

Also, anyone know if the HF wireless remote is with a damn?
http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-winch-remote-control-69229.html

 

[Fordum]

I wonder if that could have something to do with it.

Unless the socket is more waterproof with the wire unplugged, or the remote was dragging along under the truck, I would not think so.

Yeah, the four wire solenoids have both sides of the coil brought out. The three wire ones are grounded to the case.

Check to see where they get their ground. I remember a thread here a few months ago, where we found out that the remote switch also supplied ground to the solenoids when a direction was selected.

The thinking was that it was an additional safety factor in that turning off the switch killed both sides of the coils.
So if the hot side stuck, the winch would still stop unless both sides stuck closed. If yours is that way, the remote switch may have lost its ground contact.

Otherwise, I would expect some clicking in one direction or the other.

 

[K85 Octane]

Yep, just looked over the grounds. They all go back to the remote and are switched to a black wire that leads to the motor case/battery ground.


Is this some kind of a 3 phase motor? What's the need for 3 power wires?

 

[diesel4me]

I think DC motors that have no permanent magnets,like an old starter motor ,that uses field coils instead,have to have two sets of coils,one wound in one direction for forward rotation,one the opposite,for reverse...you put positive to the center post,and jumping one of the other two posts to it give you forward and reverse..

I've seen how to convert a starter to be reversible on some go-cart website,in shows how to isolate and tap into the brushes,so the motor can run backwards and forwards...so basically you end up with two "power" wires coming out of the starter,and ground is the "common"....

I find it strange that most old starters without magnets wont spin backwards if you connected the battery to one "backwards",without tapping into the brushes,it'll spin the same direction,regardless of polarity...
I guess its because the starter is "series wound"?....

Fordum can probably explain it better than me..

 

[K85 Octane]

Ok, I bypassed the remote by jumping the necessary pins in the plug. Everything worked great. Hooked the brown to the black for my ground. Then jumped the "IN" and "OUT" wires. Winch worked fine.


Something is funky with the remote I guess. I plugged it in after testing the winch and I got it to spool out. No spool in though. I think I'm going to try that Harbor Freight wireless remote for shiggles. If it doesn't work, then I've got connector problems and I'll simply return the remote.

Warn wants like $80 for another stupid remote; different sources vary wildly in prices.

Anyone know anything about the HF remote?

 

[Fordum]

Don't have any experience with the wireless. Plus, I have never actually seen a wired remote like you have.
Its pretty obvious how they work, of course. Whatever fancy case its in, all you have is a simple double pole-double throw-center off switch.

I assume its spring loaded to center in both directions. Back when I used to install winches on friend's trucks, I always used a single pole-double throw-center off switch spring loaded to center in one direction.

If the switch was vertical, you pushed it forward, away from you to reverse it. When you let go, it went back to center off.
Once you wanted to start pulling, you pulled it toward you, and it stayed on. That way you could concentrate on steering and other things while the winch did its work.

Sounds dangerous today, but that was the way things worked for over 30 years, and I don't remember any major incidents.

Edit: I realized I better explain. We never had remote switches. All the winch controls were mounted in or under the dash.
If the winch owner was often alone, I would mount a second switch under the hood to let him wind up the winch after use while watching when to turn it off and to guide the cable.

Hmm, got off the subject. What I meant to say, is that the remote you have is not complicated, and probably could be fixed or a new one built fairly easily.

Any way to get in it, or is it molded rubber?

Oh, and yep, a series wound DC motor will always run in the same direction if you reverse the power source. That is because the armature and field are in series and when you reverse the polarity on one, you reverse it on the other as well.

But, if you reverse it on only one of the two, the motor will reverse. That is why you have three terminals on winch motors.
Either the field or the armature has both connections brought out to the outside.
In the schematic I posted, the field is the two front terminals.

The two solenoids that are not hooked to the battery hook one end or the other of the field to the armature.
The other end of the field is hooked to power which then flows through it and the
armature.
Since the direction of current flow is reversed through the field, but not through the armature, the motor reverses.

 

[K85 Octane]

Interesting stuff J.
I do still have my on-off-on momentary switch from my back window in the dash. I'm not using it for anything and seems to have a bunch of tabs coming off the back. I would have to test it. It would need to supply power AND ground if I wire everything to it. Or wire an arming switch that cuts the black/brown grounds.

I like the idea of an indash switch but also liking my remote. I've got it ziptied to my door and stays put really well.

Remote (molded rubber):

 

[Fordum]

Yeah, I figured it would be molded rubber. Look at the instruction part where the switch comes out of to make sure there is not a way to get in it by popping that off or something.
Heck, loosen the nut on the switch to see what happens.

As for a mounted switch vs a remote, there is no reason you cannot have both. I put three switches on one truck one time.
For the life of me, I cannot remember why now. Or exactly where......

I think it was one inside under the dash, and one on each side under the hood. For some reason he wanted to be able to wind up the cable from either side of the truck.

I kinda like the idea of a master arm switch that controls the ground. One of the problems we had, was with little kids or even grown men asking what that switch was for and then flipping it.
Well, the kids usually did not ask, they just tried it. The men would ask as they flipped it.

It was a hard and fast rule, you NEVER left your winch in gear.

 

[rampage]

Yeah, I figured it would be molded rubber. Look at the instruction part where the switch comes out of to make sure there is not a way to get in it by popping that off or something.
Heck, loosen the nut on the switch to see what happens.

I was going to say to pop off the label under the switch because manufactures like to hide screws under them but this pdf show how to disassemble it.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=sbE3EMKFYxBuoWWCERKy6Q&bvm=bv.76247554,d.cGU

 

[K85 Octane]

So I FINALLY got a second to fix my winch. (some of you may have notice I've got an idling problem atm)

Wound up being the switch itself.
The switch also connects the ground. Originally I thought maybe it just connects ground AT the plug when plugged in. When I pulled the switch out of the rubber handle, I found this:







So I tested everything and yep, switch is cause it wont connect the grounds.

I think to myself, crap now I need a switch and it's late Saturday. No one is going to be open. If only I had a momentary ON-OFF-ON switch that had 6 spade connectors.......

How about a rear window switch that goes to a non-existent rear window Perfect. It's already in the dash and has all the connections. I pulled the Warn switch off, ran the cable into the cab, and connected it to the switch. Towards me is in and away from me is out. Didn't have to do any cutting, splicing, etc Granted, it's not fancy hardwired, but it will do the trick. Just plug it in at the start