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The dreaded torque rod discussion

Stomis

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So my fullsize came with no torque rod. Its a 355/sm465/208. It was lifted when I bought it so I dont know if it was suppose to have one or what but I'd like to get some information on these things.

I'm asking this is relation to my new rig I'm going to be building. Its gonna be a 4.3/nv3500/241 s10 blazer just for background.

So did any mid size trucks ever come with the torque rod?

What does it actually do?

Can a better designed cross member and poly mounts eliminate the need for the rod?

I want to keep the 241s case as secure as I can to prevent cracking (not that the 4.3 is gonna have the torque it really takes to tear a 241 apart) so I wanna go over kill.

I was thinking if the torque rod was never used in the s10s then perhaps I could use the two bolts and mounting flange as an additional arm stabilizing it to the frame.


Thought? Comments? Enlightenment?
 
The rod you're speaking of i'm assuming is the one that goes from the side of the t-case up to one of the bell housing bolts? If so that rod is meant to keep the t-case from breaking if a front shaft were to bottom out. I would NOT make any kind of mount that attached to the frame since all it would take is just enough flex and SNAP goes a t-case.
 
You know, I really got to start reading these threads closer. When I saw the title, and skimmed what he wrote, I thought he was talking about torsion bar suspension.

I was wondering what was holding up his truck if the bars were removed....:doah:

You folk are the experts in this, but here is what I did in a similar situation.

My F250 came with a Borg-Warner 1356 transfer case. Heavy duty, aluminum housing.
I had custom ordered it with the half aluminum, half titanium housing with the PTO opening.

But, when it came in, it came in with no opening.
I squawked, and they said that it had been discontinued because even with the stronger case, they were having problems with cracking with PTO usage

So, I replaced it with an NP205.
The older Fords had used them, and they had a brace from the housing to the frame on the driver's side.

But they switched about the same time they went to FI, so they used the mounting holes on the frame to mount the high pressure pump.

I did not like the idea of that much weight hanging off the end of my C6.

I could not use a factory brace from a junkyard because the pump was there, so I built one with flex.

Lets see if I can explain this so it makes sense.

I took three pieces of 1/4 inch steel plate. Rectangular, about 4 inches wide.
Drilled matching holes in one and mounted it on the side of the 205 facing down.
Mounted a longer piece solidly to the frame, sticking horizontally across toward the piece mounted on the 205, about 3 inches short.

Took a shorter piece, laid it on top of the horizontal piece, slid it over until the end was hard up against the piece on the 205.

Clamped the two horizontal pieces together, and marked them just in case.
Unbolted the long piece from the frame, and drilled two 1/2 inch holes down through both pieces.

Then, bored the holes in the short piece out to about 3/4.
Here is where it gets tricky to tell without pictures.

I put two rubber bushings, between the short piece and the long piece centered on the holes. Placed the short piece on top, and laid two more bushings on top of it.
Laid two thick washers on top of those bushings.

Ran two bolts down through the washers, bushings,short piece, bushing, and then the long piece.
Put nuts on the bottom, and tightened them down until there was no slop.

Mounted the assembly back to the frame, the short piece was again touching the piece on the 205.
Put some scales on top of a floor jack, and used it to jack up the 205 mounted to the truck until the scales read the weight of a 205.

As it moved up slightly, the piece on the side slid up in reference to the short piece.

When I was sure all the weight was resting on the scales, I tack-welded the end of the short piece to the piece on the side so it formed a piece of angle iron.

Took the whole mess off, and finished welding it.

Now, the 205 has what looks like a piece of super heavy angle iron bolted to it. The horizontal part does not touch any steel.
It is "captured" between two sets of rubber bushings top and bottom.
It can go up or down by compressing them.
The holes in it that the bolts go through, are larger than the bolts, so it can move a short distance in any horizontal direction by sliding between the bushings, which were greased when installed.

Sorry for the long post, if I could post a drawing easily, it would not be necessary.

Its easier to show than tell.
I do not do the kind of flexing that you folks do, and a 205 housing is not likely to break even if my design was flawed.
But it has been on there for about 20 years, so take it for what its worth.
 
Well I get the jist of what your saying. I was thinking something similar if I'm getting what your saying.

What I'm really wondering is how if that rod is there to strengthen the case incase of a front shaft bottom out then why do people have such problems with leaving them off. I mean if a front shaft really bottoms out your gonna crack that case no matter what.

Eh Idk I guess I'll just make one to strengthen the thing up.

Goes from those two bolt holes to the bellhousing. Sounds easy to make with a piece of 3/4 x 3/4 box and a couple pieces of plate.
 
It has nothing to do with torque or any of that. If that shaft needs to slip and it's resistant it can brake the t-case/adapter/trans. Doesn't matter if it's a 465/205 or a 700R4/208, if that shaft doesn't want to slip it will put tons of stress on the t-case/adapter/trans.

Now, that stress isn't just from bottoming out a driveshaft. If you're trying to get over an obstacle and you're hitting the gas, you're putting pressure on the splines of the driveshaft. If the suspension moves up or down as that happens, the driveshaft has to slip and that extra pressure makes it MUCH harder for that shaft to slip.

AFAIK manual trans trucks didn't have the support rod, breaking the tailshafts off of autos seems to be the biggest issue. Regardless, they're a good idea if you can fit them.
 
It has nothing to do with torque or any of that. If that shaft needs to slip and it's resistant it can brake the t-case/adapter/trans. Doesn't matter if it's a 465/205 or a 700R4/208, if that shaft doesn't want to slip it will put tons of stress on the t-case/adapter/trans.

Now, that stress isn't just from bottoming out a driveshaft. If you're trying to get over an obstacle and you're hitting the gas, you're putting pressure on the splines of the driveshaft. If the suspension moves up or down as that happens, the driveshaft has to slip and that extra pressure makes it MUCH harder for that shaft to slip.

AFAIK manual trans trucks didn't have the support rod, breaking the tailshafts off of autos seems to be the biggest issue. Regardless, they're a good idea if you can fit them.

Them as in plural? Does anyone have clear pictures of how these things run I cant find any. I'd like to run them anyway to strengthen **** up.
 
The "torque/support" rod will do little if the shaft bottoms out, you will either crack the adapter or the transmission case. Or shear the bolt at the block completely off(this just happened to me 3 weeks ago). The earlier models with 205's had a L-bracket with bushings at the frame to help support the weight of the case, and im sure it could be fabbed up. I kinda wonder how it would turn out if you had a real bad motor mount and the L-bracket, maybe cracked alum case.

Not that it will be of any use but some of the 93up s-series had 2 braces from the engine to the t case, one per side, but the screwed into the top of the t-case
 
Well idk then. The aluminum case definitely doesnt need the extra support because of weight. Maybe I'll make a bracket that goes up and then 90* over the bolt holes instead of doing the same to the frame.
 
I made a new one for my 465/208 combo. Mine is clocked flat, and I had to do some major surgery on the floor to get it to fit. Pics:

208support003.jpg


208support002.jpg


208support001.jpg


SANY3231.jpg


SANY3250.jpg
 
No bushings. It's made from 1 x.095 tube.

If I had to make it again, I'd make it to be more flat, attach at the bellhousing closer to the lower of the two bolt holes and make the mount at the t-case closer to the centerline of the bolt holes on the t-case. I've also got a 1" body lift and new poly body mounts. I didn't want to cut the floor as much, but it's worth it to me to have the rod in there.
 
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