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The (hopefully) official R134a conversion thread

I found a shop in Mesquite called Airpro Air. They were able to make me custom lines for $125. These things are sturdy as heck, and much better than the factory stuff. They even used all new fittings and lines. There is a guy there named Ron who is a wizard -- he was very attentive to detail and I was impressed with how he got me taken care of.

They also had a GM pad adapter, I need to get my receipt but I think it was $30. I charged it up late yesterday, and this morning driving around my vent temps were 40-42, so I guess I'm doing ok. I think the low/high side pressures were a little low, so I might add some more refrigerant when I have time over the next week.

For now, the project is complete! Finally. I'll look at my receipts and update the total invested on the first post soon...
 
Here is my .02 cents worth. I have an '86 K5, and about 4 years ago my R12 system sh#t itself. I replaced most all components (dryer, orifice tube, hoses, compressor). I tried the whole R134 conversion, and I was not happy with the air temp. It didn't get cold enough for my liking. I started doing some research, and I was surprised to learn what Europe is using in farm tractors. Most European countries have adopted a propane base refrigerant as their coolant of choice for the following reasons (1. it's cheap 2. it's readily accessible 3. Propane cools down to lower temps 4. you have less head pressure in your compressor (prolongs the life of your compressor) 5. You do NOT need a license to obtain it 6. it safer than R134 (have you read the warnings on 134?). Now think about how safe propane is.... we freak'n cook with it!!!

I have run propane sold under the name Enviro-Safe (Industrial 12a) for about 3 and 1/2 years now. I can honestly say it blows colder than my 2012 Silverado. Since I switched to this propane setup, I have had zero issues. I would recommend it to anyone without hesitation. I encourage each and everyone of you guys to do your own research, and I promise you'll be surprised too.

I fully expect a whole bunch of you guys to respond in disagreement. A lot of folks do not understand propane and assume it's dangerous in use for air conditioners. However, propane will NOT burn unless three things take place. One, you have to leak the propane. Two, the propane has to be concentrated in a tight pool (not dilute in the atmosphere) long enough to ignite. Three, you have to ignite it. The chance of all three taking place at once is next to zero. Honestly, you should be more concerned about using gasoline as a fuel than you should about propane in your AC.
 
Double check what you are using. It is NOT propane. Its a propane/butane mix. Straight propane's pressures are wrong for that use.
The main reason for my post is to stop someone from just pumping propane into their system.
There are several brands of that mix out there. I have a 30lb bottle of both the 12 and the 22 replacement.
They work well.
But, they have to be transferred as a liquid, and you have to dump the whole charge and start over if you have a leak.
The mixture has to be correct, and in the case of a leak, you don't know what part leaked out.
And the vapor is not the correct mix either, so it has to be charged as a liquid.

R134a, for all its faults, will get you as cold as you want, but retrofits often fail because the stuff holds more heat than R12, and the condensers are not efficient enough.
But, if you don't want to change the condensor, and the one you have is not enough, then the Freeze12, Enviro-Safe, and the others work well.
 
I made it explicitly clear in paragraph two of my last post that "I have run propane sold under the name Enviro-Safe (Industrial 12a)". It's main ingredient IS highly refined propane. No, I did not take the time to list out all ingredients of this coolant. I swear... some of you folks just like to argue.
 
During my initial recharge I used standard 134a and on the drive home the vent temps were sub 30 degrees F with approx 70-75 degree ambient temps. Sunday I was looking at 40 degree temp vents with ambient being around 85. I think I need to add more refrigerant as the low/high pressures are a little lower than where they should be according to the attached chart.

Please do not use this thread to argue. Keep it on topic.

Temp-pressure-chart-33776F.jpg
 
PWagon said:
Here is my .02 cents worth. I have an '86 K5, and about 4 years ago my R12 system sh#t itself. I replaced most all components (dryer, orifice tube, hoses, compressor). I tried the whole R134 conversion, and I was not happy with the air temp. It didn't get cold enough for my liking. I started doing some research, and I was surprised to learn what Europe is using in farm tractors. Most European countries have adopted a propane base refrigerant as their coolant of choice for the following reasons (1. it's cheap 2. it's readily accessible 3. Propane cools down to lower temps 4. you have less head pressure in your compressor (prolongs the life of your compressor) 5. You do NOT need a license to obtain it 6. it safer than R134 (have you read the warnings on 134?). Now think about how safe propane is.... we freak'n cook with it!!!

I have run propane sold under the name Enviro-Safe (Industrial 12a) for about 3 and 1/2 years now. I can honestly say it blows colder than my 2012 Silverado. Since I switched to this propane setup, I have had zero issues. I would recommend it to anyone without hesitation. I encourage each and everyone of you guys to do your own research, and I promise you'll be surprised too.

I fully expect a whole bunch of you guys to respond in disagreement. A lot of folks do not understand propane and assume it's dangerous in use for air conditioners. However, propane will NOT burn unless three things take place. One, you have to leak the propane. Two, the propane has to be concentrated in a tight pool (not dilute in the atmosphere) long enough to ignite. Three, you have to ignite it. The chance of all three taking place at once is next to zero. Honestly, you should be more concerned about using gasoline as a fuel than you should about propane in your AC.
Click to expand...


just curious...did you change the condenser to a parallel flow type? They are practically required for a 134 swap...much more efficient.
 
I swear... some of you folks just like to argue
Click to expand...

Sometimes, not often.

I went back and reread what I wrote.
I was in a hurry when I wrote it, because someone was coming to pick me up and I wanted to get finished.
I could not figure out how I was arguing with you, when my intention was to agree with your use of the stuff.
I have used it off and on for about 15 years now. I still have two "30lb" cans of it in my shop. One an R12 and one an R22 replacement.

My only reason for jumping in, was in case someone tried straight propane out of a bar-b-que can.
When I first started fooling around with the stuff, their website was a lot more informative.
They had charging instructions and cautions about topping it off, charging it as a vapor, and charging it into a vacuum.
And, it was a blend of propane and isobutane. About 60/40 as I recall.

Because it was not a true mixture, it would separate as a vapor, so had to be charged as a liquid.

Now, they seem to have purged all the useful information from their site. I assume that they send charging info with the refrigerant now.

They have also come out with the "industrial 12a" since I bought any, but do not tell what it is.
The pressure and temp numbers are close to propane, so they may be selling that now.
But they are just far enough off to either be a slight blend, or they are fudging the figures to hide what it is.

But, I know straight propane was tried before, various times, and the blend worked better, so its hard to say.

As I tried to say, the original stuff from them worked great, and I would assume that the industrial stuff does too.

If you still have the charging instructions you got with it, you might see if there is any warnings about topping off a charge of it after a leak, and if it must be charged as a liquid.

If there are none, they may be selling straight unblended propane now.

But, whatever it is, it works, and I have no problems using it.
I don't in my equipment, because my cars are R134a from the factory and are still cooling.
I have put it in other trucks and a travel trailer air conditioner.

But when I get around to fixing the air on my truck, I may use it or 134a depending on what I have available.
I have some of both, and already have the 134a condenser installed.
 
I'm getting between 35-40 degrees out of the vents when the sun is setting or at night, but during the heat of the day (been 95-100 here lately) I'm getting around 50 degrees, 45 if I'm driving on the highway. So far I'm happy, but it still doesn't perform like my '05 Yukon (understandable for a truck that is 16 years older). Guess I'm going to have to be happy with what I've got and that it keeps me from sweating.
 
PWagon said:
I have run propane sold under the name Enviro-Safe (Industrial 12a) for about 3 and 1/2 years now. I can honestly say it blows colder than my 2012 Silverado. Since I switched to this propane setup, I have had zero issues. I would recommend it to anyone without hesitation. I encourage each and everyone of you guys to do your own research, and I promise you'll be surprised too.
Click to expand...
I am running the same stuff. I originally assumed it had to be a propane/isobutane blend, but if you look at the thermal properties and compare them to those of propane, they are eerily similar, so whatever is mixed in there is light. I have emailed them and of course they won't tell. $4.50 for a can that is is equivalent to 2.5 cans of R134a is hard to pass up. You don't want to use propane from your BBQ because it is too wet.
 
Just worked on another ac system today for a friend's brother. 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Replaced a high side line off the compressor. Vac'd it down, filled it up.

IMAG1262.jpg


I think it would have gotten colder if it had a better fan clutch pulling more air over the condenser though.
 
What are you charging with? Best case I'm getting 40 degree at the vents.
 
134a,,, this one is actually like a Ford I worked on a month ago, it would fluctuate between mid 20's and mid teens depending on the airflow over the condenser. When the fan clutch would engage, it would cool down more.

A couple of other Chevys I worked on, were down in low single digits.

The '05 Avalanche were driving now I've had measured at 2*,, running dual 14" factory electric fans as well.

These systems were also designed to work with 134 as well, meaning connectors mainly, O-tube and all.

I never could get "cold" air out of my converted system in my '89 using the old stock condenser made for r12. When I did replace it, the compressor died during Freon insertion, so I gave up on it then..

When it was working with 134 in the converted state, it would only get decently cool in highway driving or constant moving.
 
I'm thinking I don't truly have a parallel flow condensor in my truck. I think I have the old "tube and fin" setup which is probably why my A/C isn't performing any better. However, my '05 Yukon blows the same vent temps as my Jimmy, although it does move a significantly higher volume of air.

There is a pretty good discussion going on in the thread below on the differences between R12, R134a, and a true "parallel flow" condenser.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298695
 
Doing my AC now.
I did buy an AC delco condenser that was list as parallel and it looks it compared to the old one.
I have a new Sanden compressor also.
Just need new lines made now.

What is the part # of the 134 pressure switch and where did you find it at?
 
Teck said:
Doing my AC now.
I did buy an AC delco condenser that was list as parallel and it looks it compared to the old one.
I have a new Sanden compressor also.
Just need new lines made now.

What is the part # of the 134 pressure switch and where did you find it at?
Click to expand...
AC DELCO 36674 or 36675 Rock Auto or use Google with part number.
 
clandr1 said:
I'm thinking I don't truly have a parallel flow condensor in my truck. I think I have the old "tube and fin" setup which is probably why my A/C isn't performing any better. However, my '05 Yukon blows the same vent temps as my Jimmy, although it does move a significantly higher volume of air.

There is a pretty good discussion going on in the thread below on the differences between R12, R134a, and a true "parallel flow" condenser.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298695
Click to expand...

The '05 Avalanche blows colder than this Jeep I just worked in. I dunno man. I charge the systems up using my gauges, watching pressures and keeping a big fan in front of the vehicles blowing on the condensors while running the a.c. on high max during Freon insertion.

Although, the Avalanche hasn't been messed with since factory.
 
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