The truth about biodiesel and lubricity

[4by4bygod]

Thought this would benefit some of you. The components of the biodiesel that provides lubricity ( per HFRR test method) are the contaminants known as glycerides. Of course, glycerides are what gels up in the cold weather, so if they are refined out so it's usable in any weather other than summertime, guess what happens to lubricity.

biodiesel is prevalent now because it's being mandated and subsidized at the same time.. and because congress is cashing checks from the agribusiness lobby. not because it's any good.


http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/Publications.htm?seq_no_115=171882

 

[mudman83]

That article says nothing negative about biodiesel. It does say most of the lubrication comes from the small amounts of contaminants in the biodiesel. And that atleast 1-2% of biodiesel must be added to notice the effects of added lubrication. The contaminants do much more good that harm... actually they do no harm because they are so small when sold at the pump, so all they do is make biodiesel a super lubricative fuel. Also it is better than the oil you are running. Not because it is good for the envirnoment, but because it doesn't give more money to our favorite middle eastern friends that seem to dislike por hate America. Biodiesel helps our farming, which the government usually pays to destroy crops when too much is produced. Why not make fuel? The normal price for the biodiesel I purchase is 3.90 a gallon and then I get a 99 cent tax cut because it is 99% biodiesel so my price is 2.91. Looks like biodiesel( even at the normal price of 3.90) will be cheaper then your dino fuel soon. If we do mine shale oil in america and buying petro diesel made from american oil becomes cheaper than biodiesel, than I will gladly help our economy in that way. But I see that biodiesel is good because it helps my engine, the economy and my wallet because it is 30 cents cheaper per gallon here. The fact that it helps the environment is an added bonus. If people in congress are lining their pockets with money from the lobbyist it would not be anything new, and at least less crops would be wasted. I know it is not a long term solution to the oil and energy problem but it helps.

 

[CrewCab59]

Just fun veggie oil ,low cost and smells good too.You can run it staight or make your own BioDiesel.

CrewCab59

 

[4by4bygod]

That article says nothing negative about biodiesel. It does say most of the lubrication comes from the small amounts of contaminants in the biodiesel. And that atleast 1-2% of biodiesel must be added to notice the effects of added lubrication.

you are correct, but the article points out that that biodiesel marketers aren't being factual when they claim biodiesel provides lubricity - it's the contaminants.. contaminants which cause other problems.

The contaminants do much more good that harm... actually they do no harm because they are so small when sold at the pump, so all they do is make biodiesel a super lubricative fuel.

Are you aware of the cold weather problems the stuff has? the glycerides were directly responsible for solidifying and jamming filters in minnesota this past winter, leading to the suspension of the 2% biodiesel blend mandate in that state. not suprised if you didnlt know that.. I only found one article on it, in a minnesota local paper.

Also it is better than the oil you are running. Not because it is good for the envirnoment, but because it doesn't give more money to our favorite middle eastern friends that seem to dislike por hate America.

Biodiesel is marketed as an emissions reduction technology..the fact is, it increases certain emissions. If it was marketed just as a replacement for petroleum, that would at least be intellectually honest.

Biodiesel helps our farming, which the government usually pays to destroy crops when too much is produced. Why not make fuel? The normal price for the biodiesel I purchase is 3.90 a gallon and then I get a 99 cent tax cut because it is 99% biodiesel so my price is 2.91. Looks like biodiesel( even at the normal price of 3.90) will be cheaper then your dino fuel soon.

You can run what you want, and if it's that important for you to help the farmers, knock yourself out. Remember though that biofuels have a lower energy content than diesel, so you use more fuel to travel the same distance.. not much of a savings, if you ask me.

Tom

 

[mudman83]

Yeah, I knew about the gelling problems. I have heard about it on biodiesel forums and it is not a problem for me becasue i live in AZ. I know it is not good for everyone, but it is something that should be considered. Also about the efficiency thing, soy has 7% less energy than the diesel and canola oil has a little more. Its cetane number is double of what diesel number 2 has. If I save just 10% on a tank of gas I come out on top. And the only emissions that it does increase is NOx(biodiesel.org) which can be reduced. I know it is not the perfect fuel and that it isn't right for everyone and every situation, but it is a good alternative for lots of people.

 

[botboy]

Biodiesel is marketed as an emissions reduction technology..the fact is, it increases certain emissions. If it was marketed just as a replacement for petroleum, that would at least be intellectually honest.

In the context of an argument, if you want to convince us that an item isn't as great as it is cracked up to be, perhaps you should link us to some reliable stats on it? I don't mean to flame, but your beef with biofuel ought to have a leg to stand on, especially if you mean to preach "the truth"

I hear this line of bull**** on a somewhat regular basis from yuppies pushing for people to drive the toyota prius (or "Pious" as I hear it referred to from people sick of the yuppies). In the context of the actual argument, while biodiesel may increase certain emissions, it does still reduces emissions if the net emission [biodiesel] < net emission [reg. diesel]

 

[4by4bygod]

In the context of an argument, if you want to convince us that an item isn't as great as it is cracked up to be, perhaps you should link us to some reliable stats on it? I don't mean to flame, but your beef with biofuel ought to have a leg to stand on, especially if you mean to preach "the truth"

Read the article I linked to. It's from the US department of agriculture, investigating where lubricity in biodiesel comes from. In case you don't want to read it, lubricity comes from the contaminants ( glycerides) inherent in biodiesel.

Then, do a google search on minnesotas biodiesel gelling problems this past winter, and you'll see that the high glyceride levels were responsible for the gelling. You are required to put two and two together here, and not rely on the biodiesel pr machine.

I hear this line of bull**** on a somewhat regular basis from yuppies pushing for people to drive the toyota prius (or "Pious" as I hear it referred to from people sick of the yuppies).

Huh?

In the context of the actual argument, while biodiesel may increase certain emissions, it does still reduces emissions if the net emission [biodiesel] < net emission [reg. diesel]

The EPA compares all claimed emission reductions of a product to a base reference fuel. Nox is increased with biodiesel, as compared to the NOx emissions from regular diesel. ( Nox is a product of combustion) PM reduction is marginal.

you may not think so, but it's important to make a distinction between what emissions are raised, and which are lowered, and by how much. When the EPA establishes emissions control measures for a certain area, the emissions ( PM / NOx / HC / CO ) are measured seperately, not collectively. You can consider them collectively if you want, but you would be incorrect in doing so.

The EPA has even said that biodiesel should not be used in areas where high Nox levels exist. It's a fair question to ask why the politicians will mandate a fuel that raises the very pollutants that need reducing.

Tom