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Thinking of doing the unthinkable... *Rotor to cap gap. Normal?*

Holy cow that thing runs rich! Smokes more than my diesel does, LOL!

Two things, as you mentioned, 02 sensor is NOT working. It is either totally plugged up, or bad. 0V = lean, VERY lean. ECM is gonna lay the fuel into that engine as best it can to try and get an O2 reading from it.

Two, your fuel pressure regulator has to be bad. Your fuel pressure is way too high if it is making that kind of smoke. Even a fully enriched mixture from the ECM should never be able to generate that kind of smoke.
 
I should probably clear up the fact that smoke is mostly just a atmosphere situation and not a fuel situation. It was pretty cold and very humid this morning. I believe therefor that its just water vapor. It doesnt "smoke" like that on a summer day.
 
No sir. My heated o2 sensor fixed everything but the idle surging issue that i have had sense day one.
 
y5mgisi said:
And sense i seem to have taken cross posting to the extreme and fordum is helping me not be such a tard, here is the data! I have wanted to do this for over 4years now!
Click to expand...
First off your truck never warmed up to the 195 thermastat you said you had in there. Barely ever reached 180. If the chip wants 195 then you are always in choke which will make it run rich.

Second your running rich.

Third your TPS is .7 and should be .54 or closer but don't think that is your problem.

Fourth your TPS is... 1.7 at idle and idle is 650. so something is wrong with TPS in this data anyway. Check TPS voltage.

Fifth your idle 650 with TPS at 4.1...

Looks like no VSS? This can cause your exact idle issue

and looks to be open loop the entire time...
 
and your O2 sensor reading is WAY lean? :eek1:

I don't get it... you may have more than one issue.

What codes are stored in the ECM?

Is your MAP sensor hooked to the vacuum port between the 2 fuel lines on back of the TBI?

Check voltage on O2 sensor wire to ground with it disconected, key on? Should be about .45 and your data shows .016ish...
 
It seems you may be reading off my old data that was done with a bad o2 sensor. Let me post up one of my new ones and it will look much better. But to answer a couple of your questions. The thermostat does seem to be a 180. If it makes any of us feel any better it ran the same with a 195. but i do plan on butting the 195 back in. The tps has been replaced and also adjusted every way this side of tuesday along with the "idle adjustment screw" with no change. The tps has most recently been adjusted back to about .55v. I think you MIGHT have been looking at the raw tps value and not the corrected voltage value. It just looks like no vss cause most of this was all done sitting still in my driveway. THere is one of my loggs that has a littel driving in it too which shows the vss value. With the new heated o2 i do go to closed loop. Currently, yes, the map is hooked to the port between the fuel lines on the throttle body. I have tried it elsewhere with no difference.

Will post some other loggs of mine for you to look at in just a sec.
 
So, at long last, its looking like i will finally be getting a "new" motor for this thing! If the crads fall right. I should have a few hundred extra bucks coming my way "soon". Any time between tomorrow and 3 months from now... Thinking it should be quick any way. At that, there is at least one tbi 350 on CL thats a "hear it run" type deal. So, Plan is, get money, buy the motor, slap it in, then tear down and inspect the one in my burb now. Then im going to fix up that motor and stick it in my pickup i think. None the less, if all goes to plan, i will have a different motor in there in about a month.
 
Over four years... What a nightmare... Any way, here is a post from way back when,

*while surging* now just came to a stop
Iac started at 55 and slowly moved up to over 100 steps during the surging episode
gave the gas a quick tap, it setled back down, the IAC went to 29 steps and stayed there and didnt surge again
After that(still stoped but in gear idleing) it would switch breifly from lean to rich but 98% of the time it was lean.

I dont know what to make of that. i just hope i get this stupid new motor! I just cant believe that i have allowed myself to have this issue for FOUR ****ING YEARS! I could have saved enough money to put whatever the hell engine i wanted into it by now! What an idiot.. This is funny, its like im ranting on myself.
 
I still think you're having camshaft related problems myself! You can change sensors and fiddle with stuff all you want, but if your camshaft ain't EFI friendly, it isn't gonna run right for you.

Good idea on the hear-it-run-first TBI 350 replacement engine. Around here they only cost a few hundred bucks now. I would really suggest you get the throttle body, ESC module & knock sensor and the ECM with the new engine. Then that eliminates pretty much any possiblity of some gremlin in the old setup continuing to haunt you.
 
Cam is my mine hunch as well. But then i go back to the fact that i can shut the IAC, un plug it, then adjust the throttle screw out all the way and it still runs... Whatever. Who knows. The world may never know! At any rate, i found a hear it run TBI 350 for $350. If that one goes away before i have the money, they pop up from time to time so i will just wait for the next one. Im just all the way done dealing with this motor. Also now think i have either a main bearing knock, piston slap, or a bad torque converter causing a very bad "knock" At start up! Good oil pressure though still. So im going to rip this motor apart, fix it up, and stick it in the pickup with a carb on it where it should be happy. I'll just run the used 350 until i actually at some point do the 6.0 swap. It only sees probably 2000-3000 miles a year right now any way. Yea i plan on getting everything he will give me when i purchase the motor.
 
Just for funzies here is 4 more driveway loggs. You guys dont need to look at them, its mostly just a reference thing for me.
 

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So ideas just wondering, can i advance my cam a tooth? Or is that not ok to do? I was just thinking about how my vacuum gauge has a "late valve timing" section that is pretty low on the vacuum scale. Fight now, just to have the vacuum I do, I have the timing pushed all the way up to 6* or so and I have all the settings (minimum air and all that) set to give me maximum vacuum and I'm still reading I'm the late timing section of the vacuum gauge. So, I'm thinkin that if I had everything set where it should be I might be reading all the way sown in the late valve timing area. So, I'm wondering if It's ok, as a cheap means of experimenting, for me to pull the timing cover and advance the cam a full tooth? What say you?
 
y5mgisi said:
So ideas just wondering, can i advance my cam a tooth? Or is that not ok to do? I was just thinking about how my vacuum gauge has a "late valve timing" section that is pretty low on the vacuum scale. Fight now, just to have the vacuum I do, I have the timing pushed all the way up to 6* or so and I have all the settings (minimum air and all that) set to give me maximum vacuum and I'm still reading I'm the late timing section of the vacuum gauge. So, I'm thinkin that if I had everything set where it should be I might be reading all the way sown in the late valve timing area. So, I'm wondering if It's ok, as a cheap means of experimenting, for me to pull the timing cover and advance the cam a full tooth? What say you?
Click to expand...

That's not a good idea, that is a LOT of timing. There is probably only 36 teeth or so on the cam sprocket, so thats 10 degrees of cam timing, which is 20 degrees of crank timing. Way too much.

Now, if you think your cam is off one tooth and you are putting it back to normal, then proceed.
 
I had heard somewhere that each tooth you move on the cam is 4*. That's not the case? Fart. Then I'm really torn as to what to do next. I either want to put a stock cam in it or get a chip that will compensate for the low vacuum. Price wise It's nearly the same with the cam swap being a little cheaper but much more involved. What to do what to do.
 
y5mgisi said:
I had heard somewhere that each tooth you move on the cam is 4*. That's not the case? Fart. Then I'm really torn as to what to do next. I either want to put a stock cam in it or get a chip that will compensate for the low vacuum. Price wise It's nearly the same with the cam swap being a little cheaper but much more involved. What to do what to do.
Click to expand...

Many aftermarket timing sets have multiple crank grooves and marks to move the cam 4 degrees or 2 degrees either way, but not usually the stock one. And most likely it has a 36 tooth sprocket, but you'd have to count them to be sure and divide by 360 degrees(720 crank degrees). Whatever it has, the crank sprocket will have half that, so cam speed is always half of crank speed/timing.
 
Darn it, you are making my head hurt. I hate trying to access data this old........

But way back when in my engine building days, there were a couple of ways to advance or retard cam timing.......

I think, that you had multiple key slots like Folkenheath said. Some engines also had offset keys that gave you like a 1 degree or so.

And, once upon a time, someone sold a two piece gear with a center that had a bolt and slot arraignment that let you dial in whatever you wanted.

Surely someone will chime in here who has dealt with this in the last 30 years unlike me.........
 
Folken, thanks for the info. Fordum, like you im having trouble remembering things! Specifically, whether or not this timing set had the three different keyways on the crank gear or not! Either way, that still doenst answer the question that so far i have come up with exactly two answers for that are exactly opposite. Will advancing a cam increase idle vacuum? Some people say it will, others say no. If it will, then i will give it a try. If it means all i need to do is get a new timing cover gasket, screw it! Its worth the shot IF it will increase idle vacuum. If it wont make a difference, then obviously its not worth it.
 
OK, this is my last word on the subject for now. I'm still in the office and need to head home.
This is the way I see it, but I've had a bad day and so I may be all wrong.

Advancing the camshaft closes the exhaust valve earlier during the overlap cycle which minimizes an internal engine vacuum leak and provides a net gain to the overall vacuum readings. Advancing the camshaft also closes the intake valve earlier after bottom dead center which increases cranking compression and this in turn increases the torque being produced by the engine.

I think..........

You might try just advancing the ignition timing a little first. That will usually help idle vacuum.
 
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