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timed vs full vacuum advance

Chevy305

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There seem to be 2 schools of thought on this, that full manifold vacuum for the dizzy is correct, the other one being the timed port is correct because you don't need full advance while idling, and that on the timed port the advance will kick in as you need it...

But if both the timed and full manifold ports deliver the same vacume at WOT, does it really matter?
 
Full manifold all the way. Search and you will find tons of info on this. This debate has been around longer than the ford or chevy debate. Let the games begin!
 
I'm still working on the dizzy timing, but I've found better manners with ported vacuum. I've read all this stuff about vacuum and whatnot, but I guess my current setup is way out of wack. I'm plumbed into the front nipple on the carb, just above the blades. It seems to have better manners on the street. EX: leaving from a green light, stop sign, light 35mph cruise. I know it's ported cause there is no vacuum until I crack the blades a little. I've tried the nipple on the back of the carb, below the blades. I've also tried the nipple on the front of the carb below the blades. The one in the rear has vacuum at idle. I found neither of them worked as good as the ported nipple.

and that article mentioned 50* total at highway speeds??? That doesn't sound right. I also thought you could get away with more advance with a richer mixture, like more advance with higher octane, creating a little more grunt, but this argues with the articles idea that lean mixtures need more advance.
 
If you just swap the hoses and don't retune the idle RPM & A/F ratio to compensate you aren't getting the most out of each setup.
 
If you just swap the hoses and don't retune the idle RPM & A/F ratio to compensate you aren't getting the most out of each setup.

Yeah, that's all I've been doing. My idle raises a tad and messing with the Q-jet ain't easy. I've just left it on ported cause it always felt better all around. :dunno:
 
Yeah, that's all I've been doing. My idle raises a tad and messing with the Q-jet ain't easy. I've just left it on ported cause it always felt better all around. :dunno:

The pertinent part of the link above...

<snip>Now, to the widely-misunderstood manifold-vs.-ported vacuum aberration. After 30-40 years of controlling vacuum advance with full manifold vacuum, along came emissions requirements, years before catalytic converter technology had been developed, and all manner of crude band-aid systems were developed to try and reduce hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust stream. One of these band-aids was "ported spark", which moved the vacuum pickup orifice in the carburetor venturi from below the throttle plate (where it was exposed to full manifold vacuum at idle) to above the throttle plate, where it saw no manifold vacuum at all at idle. This meant the vacuum advance was inoperative at idle (retarding spark timing from its optimum value), and these applications also had VERY low initial static timing (usually 4 degrees or less, and some actually were set at 2 degrees AFTER TDC). This was done in order to increase exhaust gas temperature (due to "lighting the fire late") to improve the effectiveness of the "afterburning" of hydrocarbons by the air injected into the exhaust manifolds by the A.I.R. system; as a result, these engines ran like crap, and an enormous amount of wasted heat energy was transferred through the exhaust port walls into the coolant, causing them to run hot at idle - cylinder pressure fell off, engine temperatures went up, combustion efficiency went down the drain, and fuel economy went down with it.

If you look at the centrifugal advance calibrations for these "ported spark, late-timed" engines, you'll see that instead of having 20 degrees of advance, they had up to 34 degrees of advance in the distributor, in order to get back to the 34-36 degrees "total timing" at high rpm wide-open throttle to get some of the performance back. The vacuum advance still worked at steady-state highway cruise (lean mixture = low emissions), but it was inoperative at idle, which caused all manner of problems - "ported vacuum" was strictly an early, pre-converter crude emissions strategy, and nothing more. , </snip>

Rene
 
I read that Rene, but until I can mess with more stuff, I guess I just haven't seen the advantages of manifold vacuum. I am running a Pro Billet MSD and have a fairly aggressive advance curve on it, with a total timing of 36* IIRC. Base timing @ 11* with 25* stopper. Running middle weight springs (not the lightest).
 
I read that Rene, but until I can mess with more stuff, I guess I just haven't seen the advantages of manifold vacuum. I am running a Pro Billet MSD and have a fairly aggressive advance curve on it, with a total timing of 36* IIRC. Base timing @ 11* with 25* stopper. Running middle weight springs (not the lightest).

You call that aggressive? :D I am running the lightest springs with my center bar flipped so I have about 25 deg initial with 36 all in by about 2500 RPM. Plus full manifold vacuum, although my manifold vacuum is limited to 16 degrees all in by 8 inHg because of a filed tack weld on the can bracket, puts me around 52 at cruise and over 40 at idle. I need it in quick because my truck only has 13 inHg at idle and I don't want the timing bouncing around at idle.

My 388 in my Regal doesn't haven't enough vacuum to run a vacuum advance, so it's locked at 38 degrees, all the time (except for the 20 deg start retard from the MSD box). I welded the rotor bar right to the lower plate after phasing the rotor to the magnetic pickup.

Both are stock HEIs that I modified the advance mechanisms and hooked up to MSD boxes.

What you need to do after you hook up to manifold vacuum is turn your idle back down and then retune your idle screws for maximum vacuum at idle.
 
But if both the timed and full manifold ports deliver the same vacume at WOT, does it really matter?
This line of thinking misses the whole point of vacuum advance. It isn't supposed to do anything at high throttle. The simplified rule is that mechanical is for performance and vacuum is for economy. In reality, the engine just wants different amounts of timing at different speeds and at different loads. So the weights move based on RPM and vacuum is a pretty good indicator of engine load.
 
Putting my distributor in a few minutes ago got me thinking, Should i time it at about 8*with the vacuum advance disconnected and then when it is connected the timing should jump up to like 20* or so right? Is this the correct method? Or do i need to have the timing set lower with the vacuum advance hooked up?
 
base timing is always done with vac advance unhooked and plugged.. set the base timing, tighten dizzy, then bring it up to about 3 grand, so the timing is all in, and check the timing (hopefully you have advance knob on the timing light) you should see at least 28 degrees... most sb chevy's like low 30's, usually around 32 for total timing... cam profile dependent..... let it return to idle.. plug vac advance in..
 
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