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Too much toe?

schuttothrill

schuttothrill

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I got my XJ steering shaft done up and installed, shocks and everything good to go- I checked the toe with my 37s using the driveway method and have just a hair under a quarter inch difference between the front and back of the tires.

It rides awesome down the highway, no wandering at all- but I took a few gravel roads and it was all over the place. It was so bad I actually checked to make sure my U-bolts were still tight.

Back on the highway- solid as a rock.

Any ideas? I was always under the impression that the toe should be in the 1/8 inch ballpark. I wish I knew a more precise way to measure...
 
i doubt it's an alignment/toe issue..

need more info, stock springs? lift? x-over?
 
Any other time I would be inclined to think it was due to springs or Xover or something but It's never done this until I messed with my tie rod and drag link to adjust toe and center my wheel. I still need to monkey with it to get it just right but wondered if this symptom was a definite red flag toe issue.

To answer your question though, I do have xover steering, 54" front springs, DRW hubs with 37" H1 take-offs, and a panhard bar. Replaced ringpin springs a few years ago but no "washer shims", Hydro assist.

The bushings could probably be replaced, but again its just strange that this happens only on gravel.

I need to take it in to get the bearings, seals and rotors done, so they can probably take a look at that point, but they sure aren't afraid to charge labor for every minute they even think about working........

Thank you good Sir, I hope I provided ample info.
 
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schuttothrill said:
Any other time I would be inclined to think it was due to springs or Xover or something but It's never done this until I messed with my tie rod and drag link to adjust toe and center my wheel. I still need to monkey with it to get it just right but wondered if this symptom was a definite red flag toe issue.

To answer your question though, I do have xover steering, 54" front springs, DRW hubs with 37" H1 take-offs, and a panhard bar. Replaced ringpin springs a few years ago but no "washer shims", Hydro assist.

The bushings could probably be replaced, but again its just strange that this happens only on gravel.

I need to take it in to get the bearings, seals and rotors done, so they can probably take a look at that point, but they sure aren't afraid to charge labor for every minute they even think about working........

Thank you good Sir, I hope I provided ample info.
Click to expand...

Do you have much experience with the tires your currently running on gravel? Or other comparable tires?
 
At what speeds on gravel roads is it wandering? I have never ran those tires, but friends tell me they are like driving on marbles at speed. Crawling is OK.
 
I have the BFGs. I got a darn near new set from Kert and they ride like a Cadillac at any speed on the highway- I've had it up to 85 mph or so and it was fine. I have about 2500 .12 gram air soft pellets in each tire. Now I hadn't thought of it before, but this didn't happen with my 39" pitbull maddogs, but I also hadn't messed with the toe adjustment.

My theory is that I have a bit much toe, and that it presents itself on the looser gravel. Out of consideration for basic scientific process, I usually make only one change on something at a time, but sometimes you can't help it, and you get unpredictable results.

I'll back the toe off a turn I think and report back tomorrow afternoon guys..

Thanks so much for the help this far, I'll have better data to present tomorrow!
 
I only got up to about 35 on the gravel before it got a bit sketchy. didn't want to push it any further!
 
Toe evens itself out.
Doesn't cause wandering.

But, these H1's.... Are a pita, on gravel.
Driving on marbles is a great description.
 
Out of curiosity.... Did it do it before you swapped the Xj shaft?

And I had an 1/8in toe measured from the end of a 4ft level. I would think a 1/4in measure on the tires and not out farther like a level would do it would be a lil to much, but then again I doubt its causing your problem. And a side thought, bump steer doesnt occur on a smooth highway, its caused by bumps, IE a gravel road. Are you sure all your balljoints/kingpins/that stuff is tight and well lubed?
 
454Sub said:
Out of curiosity.... Did it do it before you swapped the Xj shaft?
Click to expand...

It didn't. Like I said, I hate changing multiple variables at a time since it just invites problems that are tough to diagnose, but sometimes it just doesn't work out they way you hope.

Here's what variables have changed, one or more of which must be the problem.
(not in any particular order)

Changed out ORD 4.5 drop pitman arm for ORD 1.5.
37" BFG H1 setup with PVC beadlocks (balanced with about 12oz of airsoft BBs Set at 45 PSI at time of "wandering" Now they're at 40.
Toe setting changed
Drag link setting changed
XJ Steering shaft
Tilt Column

I believe that's it.

I slept in today until 2 (no kids to wake me up- THIS NEVER HAPPENS!) So admittedly I haven't had a chance to make any adjustments like I said I was going to do. I need to get on it.
 
I doubt its the steering shaft, unless its real loose. I would try changing tires to test that first. I also doubt its the drag link, unless the ends are wallered out. It only controls steering direction relative to the steering wheel. The column you would have noticed had alot of slop, but really it would be up and down movement, which has no effect on the steering, mine moved 7 or so inches up and down and I drove it like that for a long time. You could try and reset the tierod to lessen the toe a bit and see if that helps. I would say the longer springs, but the track bar should calm them down. If I had to place a bet, I would say tires first, then move from there.
 
Ok folks. I adjusted the tie rod back out to 1/8 toe and now it's as good as a truck with 54's and no sway bar can be on gravel.

On a somewhat unrelated subject, I'm unsure of my choice of highway tire pressure, so I'll be messing with that some in the days ahead. It's at 40 now, Load range E tires. My truck is 6k lbs on the nose, so maybe I could get by with 30 or 35 on the road.
Any suggestions?

Thanks for all the help guys, you gave me things to consider that I wouldn't have ever thought of before :)
 
I run my boggers at 35psi on the street, and 35psi anywhere else for that matter and its smooth on the street.
 
You should almost never use the pressure rating on the tire, just never go above it. If your vehicle has a pressure rating in the door, it'll be closer, but even that one is for the vehicle at it's fully loaded weight rating. I take a paint pen and draw lines on my tread (perpendicular to tread). Start with your pressure high, drive a couple miles and check the mark. The marks should be worn away on the center of your tread. Let some air out. Repeat until the mark is worn evenly across the tread. Record tire pressure and put it in the glove box. Also, the ideal pressure may change if you change tire brands. This works great for getting mileage out of tires in a daily driver.
 
454Sub said:
I run my boggers at 35psi on the street, and 35psi anywhere else for that matter and its smooth on the street.
Click to expand...

Well of course they're smooth for Bogger's at that PSI...you're running on the center of the tread instead of all of it. :haha: Boggers at the correct inflation never ride smooth, that's pretty much a design feature.

I ran my TSL's at 20 psi front and 18 psi rear, and they wore evenly.

The paint pen idea is a good one.
 
I did the paint pen when I came up with the 35PSI idea, as I experimented with this with my work car as a way to squeeze 33mpg out of it when I was driving to one of our lovely state prisons to put a roof on it. It wears a touch more on the inside of the tread compared to the outside. But when lowered to 20ish, which wore evenly, my mirrors kept sagging and falling off, and interior/exterior fasteners came loose at a more than I felt like dealing with rate . Which proved most irritating. So I compromised and came up with 35. It tracks straight, isnt so rough and loud, still wears fairly even. Add into the mix that I rarely put 200 miles a year at most on asphalt, and probably not much more than that in the mud anymore. It just seemed to me personally a more economical solution, and as a side bonus I dont have to check air as often as its fairly easy to spot one that is low as its not got a bulge compared to them at 18 or so. Is this a perfect method.... No, but it just works better and I can be a touch lazier with one aspect of it, and pay more attention to another aspect. Which in itself is even lazy, :rolleyes: :haha: but it works for me. Just my 0.02 on it.
 
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