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traction aids...which is better clutch or no clutch?

dirtwarrior17 said:
a couple came out to 420 hp with a 750 cfm edelbrock on it. Here is how i see/saw it....

stock hp: 210
Manifold 15-25
tbi 15-20
cam 20- 25
headers 15-20
exhaust 10
compression 15
bore 15
chip 20
Kand n xtreme filter lid and kandn filter 10
higher fuel psi 10
heads 15-25 they had work done to em
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I stand corrected.....you are WAY optimistic!

Here's the truth:
stock: 210
manifold: 15 (maybe, but the stock tbi's are pretty restrictive)
TBI: 0, and thats with the chip.
cam: 15 (maybe 20 at the most, that cam is OLD tech.)
headers: 10
exaust:10
compression: More like 20 HP
Bore: about 4.5HP give or take .25
Chip: Thats needed just to make it run right.
K&N: maybe 5hp
PSI boost: don't know, but probably 10
Heads: I'll give you 15hp because they are better than stock.(not much though, and thats if they are the bigger 2.02's)

A 750 Edelbrock tuned correctly would probably knock the pants off your TBI setup.

Desktop dyno sucks IMHO. I don't trust that program. It said my 406sbc should make 380 something HP and 466ft lbs. I know it's not near that.

I'd say you are right around 300HP and 325 ft lbs at the crank.

Sorry to burst your bubble. :p:
 
You missed the part in my older post about the 670 cfm holley. has 85 pph injectors. that gives the manifold a little more adds somwhere around 15 because i forgot to mention the tbi spacer and the holley tbi says it will add as much as 20 on stock motors without a chip so its probably around or a little over 20 in real hp not manufactures statement of "up to" That puts it at 350.... right?

You are probably right that it is not 375 but IMHO It should put down 350 at the flywheel( the manifold is the wildest you can get and its not highway legal) and I'm pumping more than enough fuel/air through it to get it up to the higher rpms the after burners supposedly add 15 and the exhaust is 3 inch but it has no bends except the y pipe(cut off after the muffler) but i know im reachin on that one. its all speculation... I will definetly post the sheets when i get em.

Lockup converter=more rwhp than non lock up?
 
Also ,,,fill in your profile. It will help others understand what you have etc etc. That way they can better assist you . I dont know what you have on your truck, but the sm465 would be good also with a 14 bolt. That combination will chew up and spit out almost anything you can throw at it i do beleive. The 14 is heavier, but peace of mind.
 
dirtwarrior17 said:
You missed the part in my older post about the 670 cfm holley. has 85 pph injectors. that gives the manifold a little more adds somwhere around 15 because i forgot to mention the tbi spacer and the holley tbi says it will add as much as 20 on stock motors without a chip so its probably around or a little over 20 in real hp not manufactures statement of "up to" That puts it at 350.... right?
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Basically no. You are confused on how fuel is delivered. All your intake does is distribute the mixture to the cylinders. How the fuel is being mixed right above it is a seperate deal. Having the injectors and chip are what it takes to make the engine run correctly and actually let the engine itself make power. You have basically just "jetted" the carb correctly in a sence. With Holley tbi and spacer probably add a few extra ponies, but not near as much as the manufacturer says it does.

I honestly doubt you are over 315HP.

Lockup converter=more rwhp than non lock up?
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Depends. On an inertia dyno, it probably doesn't help at all since you start out with no wheel speed, floor it, and let it shift and rev to 50-100+mph. On pull down dyno it would probably help a little since it loads the drivetrain with the vehicle at a steady speed and RPM.
 
I want that tranny more than the lockers but ..... broke as a joke and the th700 is built so i'll probably run it for another 75,000 or so until i can't live without a clutch. When the tc lockups up isn't almost the same as a manual(except for the impellers and fluid?

dude im not a full member. don't know if this matters but i don't know what to do to get into my profile.
 
dirtwarrior17 said:
probably should... I like the clearence of the 10b.
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i thought you said you run mud?

sure, a 14 will drag a little more there too, but not nearly as important as for a rock truck...

at your age, with your motors torque curve and your personality, your gonna be tromping the sh*t outta it.. i'd much rather have the cheap, bulletproof 14ff for that heavy foot... the big question lies in the front. 3/4 or 1 ton... i'd suggest 3/4 for ya with your financial situation... cheap 14 and convert to 8 lug up front..
 
stock hp: 210
Manifold 20( holley projection)
670 cfm tbi 15 ( probably more around 25- 30 with the chip(stock 210 hp 350 sees 20 on its best day without a chip)
cam 20(its old but crane cams made it as a hydraulic replica not repacement)
447 lift 272 dur
headers 15
exhaust 10
compression 20
bore 5
chip 0
Kand n xtreme filter lid and kandn filter 10( manufacture claims 10 at the wheels)
higher fuel psi 10
heads more like 20... been ported and polished but they are 1.94's
those numbers are very very modest considering what manufactures claim.
ok I'll rest my case at 350.

Last thing i want to do it bicker for another 3 weeks but this is just my opinion. Just my 2 cents.
 
dirtwarrior17 said:
I want that tranny more than the lockers but ..... broke as a joke and the th700 is built so i'll probably run it for another 75,000 or so until i can't live without a clutch. When the tc lockups up isn't almost the same as a manual(except for the impellers and fluid?

dude im not a full member. don't know if this matters but i don't know what to do to get into my profile.
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Not exactly, you still loose power from having to spin the converter. A hydralic link to your drivetrain is never going to transfer power as well an all mechanicall link. (that means a manual is better for dyno numbers than an auto)

Most people in the hi performance realm use intertia dynos, that means the torque convert lockup won't matter all that much.

I'm telling you, you have this false idea in your head of "manufacturer" claimed power and it's going to disapoint you on the dyno if you don't start relizing that.
 
at your age, with your motors torque curve and your personality, your gonna be tromping the sh*t outta it.. i'd much rather have the cheap, bulletproof 14ff for that heavy foot... the big question lies in the front. 3/4 or 1 ton... i'd suggest 3/4 for ya with your financial situation... cheap 14 and convert to 8 lug up front..
Click to expand...

Your right on all that and im probably dreamin trying to make the 10b live. Think I'll look into one in a month or two. I can't afford to change up my rims until i get new tires tho. I think I have a d44 up front but im not sure. Looks beefier than the rear.

I live in redding ca and see alot of mud in the winter but there are some pretty gnarly trails all over to run in the summer where clearence and lockers definetly become essential( I've scraped my 10b lots of times) and i wouldn't mind driving to moab to run it at least once. Im getting tired of reading about it.

Maybe a beefed 12b for the best of both worlds?
 
dude you might be right but the tbi, manifold, kand n, and a few others are way way modest considering what the manufactures say. I might end up being disapointed but i really really think its more than 315.

also common sense tells me the 350 numbers on the desktop dyno are probably closer than the 406 as its used a lot less than a 350.

My dad had that program in his shop for a while and it was ded on for his 383. 355 hp and 430 ft lbs.

dyno says 347 with worse heads than mine and that is with hydraulic flat tappet. torque curve is where it matters tho and 374 at 2000 seems right. 398 at 4500 is peak on the desktop. I agree with all of you that keep telling me camels are pieces but that is the first thing to go when i get some money after all my axles, gears, lockers, and tires. I want the dart cast iron heads with 2.05 or is it 2.06 int and 1.60.

I'm not saying your wrong about the manufactures bs ratings but i compensated for them as well as i thought it would be( keep in mind that the more mods you add they will make more hp individually then just bolting that one component to a stock motor because they compliment each other)

You have done this before and i haven't so logic says your right but theres only one way to find out... first i need a job.
 
best of both worlds is a 14b semi floater, you only loose 1/2" of clearance as stated. quite strong rear, but not as strong as the 14bff.

every 3/4 ton from 81-87 that does not have a bbc from the factory has one.
 
dirtwarrior17 said:
stock hp: 210
Manifold 20( holley projection)
670 cfm tbi 15 ( probably more around 25- 30 with the chip(stock 210 hp 350 sees 20 on its best day without a chip)
cam 20(its old but crane cams made it as a hydraulic replica not repacement)
447 lift 272 dur
headers 15
exhaust 10
compression 20
bore 5
chip 0
Kand n xtreme filter lid and kandn filter 10( manufacture claims 10 at the wheels)
higher fuel psi 10
heads more like 20... been ported and polished but they are 1.94's
those numbers are very very modest considering what manufactures claim.
ok I'll rest my case at 350.

Last thing i want to do it bicker for another 3 weeks but this is just my opinion. Just my 2 cents.
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YOu are still too optimistic. With your heads being 1.94's they are hardly better than stock. Maybe worth 10-15HP. Your complete exhaust makes maybe 15-20HP over a stock system. Headers only make 7HP on average on a stock engine. Flowmasters don't make all that much either. Removing the converter is where I noticed the biggest power difference from an exhaust mod.

When you get your dyno results I'll be waiting with a big fat "I told you so."
 
dirtwarrior17 said:
I think I have a d44 up front but im not sure.
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It's a 10B up front. GM quit using the D44/12B combo in the late 70's/early 80's.

I've spent all day correcting your misguided information in a half dozen threads....I'm pooped. :p:
 
well you could always consider living with mixmatched rims till you could convert the front.. it does mean the dread 2 spare existance but not undoable..

and theres no strength difference between a 44 and 10.. my 77 had 12b, 44 and my 87 got 10's.. hopefully i'll be 1 ton by the end of summer.. but i'm just an old guy that likes to overbuild the sh*t out of everything... i have trouble not buying the best quality parts. gets expensive..:whistle: :doah: :rotfl:
 
?? I wouldnt spend another dime on the motor,unless its going to fixing the heads, and then add good axles to your rig,completely throw the 10b and 1/2 ton junk all away,,, and get 1 tons

It sounds like you have a lift on the truck already,,, a motor,,,tires and wheels?

Also, i have the same 700r4 that bobby does, built to the hilt by the same shop,,etc etc,, but if i could do it all over the 465 would be a good way to go as you may already know. I beleive it gives more direct power to the rear wheels,i think,, witch would gain you some.

Do you have a direction you want to go with it all? A plan?? I have found if you have a plan FIRST,everything goes alot smoother. Instead of jumping from this to that etc. And ive made some EXPENSIVE mistakes. So big i have to start all over with the project from scratch.

Be prepared to spend 15k. I have 10k on a stock truck. So, when you get the money, i would start with the axles after the motor fixin asap. You will kick yourself in the end if you invest in half ton stuff,and end up going 1 tons.

What i am doing is looking at all the others trucks and stuff, and what works,, and encorperating my own touches here and there. It dosent matter if you have a gizzillion horse power,, withough 1 tons to back it up, your nowhere.In the end planning your project out slowly will beifit you in the long run, jacob
 
rjfguitar said:
It's a 10B up front. GM quit using the D44/12B combo in the late 70's/early 80's.

I've spent all day correcting your misguided information in a half dozen threads....I'm pooped. :p:
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I WAS THERE FOR YOU!!! I WAS THERE FOR YOU!!! sorry i just had too :grin: j/k
 
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