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Trailer Brake Controller

fourwheelerjeff

fourwheelerjeff

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I have been using the Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller on one of my Dodge tow rigs. I have a dually that has a different brand on it; can't remember. but anyway, when that truck sits for long periods of time the brake lights will come on. open the door and use the manual control on the brake controller, slide it and then let it go and the brake lights go off. I was going to get another Prodigy brake controller for it and was wondering if that was still as good as it was when I put the one on my other Dodge 10 years ago.
any suggestions?
 
if you can do like i did . i cant drive both trucks at the same time so i got a extra quick clip mount for my pdorigy and pig tail . when i need it i just plug it in to that truck and go .
 
sweetk30 said:
if you can do like i did . i cant drive both trucks at the same time so i got a extra quick clip mount for my pdorigy and pig tail . when i need it i just plug it in to that truck and go .
Click to expand...
You just gave me a great idea.
 
Wake up thread! ha ha

Is the Tekonsha prodigy the best? Does this whole deceleration based trailer braking work well? It seems kind of indirect to me.

Does anyone make a trailer brake controller that uses a simple brake pressure sensor instead of accelerometers? It seems that would be a more direct way of applying the trailer brakes in proportion to the vehicle brakes.

My 2016 Sierra has a nice factory trailer brake controller built right into the dash you can adjust the sensitivity and apply the brakes with the lever if needed, works great, does anyone make an aftermarket dash mounted trailer brake controller with a lever instead of the knee banger style?

I have looked and I can't find a dash mounted unit with a lever nor a unit that uses a brake pressure sensor.

I'm just planning future projects...
 
Prodigy units are the best in my opinion. I have not seen a dash mounted unit. The old hydraulic units were proportionally controlled by the front brake line off of the master cylinder. I have one in the Fugly Duckling that I am taking out. It is free if you want it.
 
Thanks, but I don't want a hydraulic unit, I want a electronic one for electric trailer brakes that uses a brake pressure sensor instead of accelerometers that mounts in the dash and has a lever. Anyone know of such a thing?

However, if no one makes them, I'll likely end up buying a prodigy and mounting it in the dash if possible to do and look correct.

I imagine people use the accelerometer units because they are easy to install, and are better than a simple on off switch like the brake lights.

But to know the actual brake pressure you are applying seems like it would be better to me than measuring how fast you are slowing down.
 
It is electronic to the trailer. The unit turns hydraulic pressure into voltage.

Trailer brakes never get 12 volts applied to them. 6 volts at the most. 1 to 3 volts most of the time. The brake switch just turns the unit on so the potentiometer works.

The better units also allow you to turn the voltage up in steps for heavier trailers. If not, you have to turn up the voltage with the adjusting wheel.

The reason everyone uses these units is, they work excellent. I even had one in the semi for when I pulled the 5th wheel.

The factory one in the Ram works the same way.
 
Are you talking about two different units now Wade?

I'm assuming the semi was air brakes and not hydraulic. I'm not looking for a vacuum tube pressure potentiometer thing a majig. ;)

I want a modern unit that has adjustable sensitivity separate from adjustable max braking that uses brake pressure as an indicator rather than deceleration.

But if the accelerometer units work that well and that's what's available then that's what I'll use.
 
I don't know how the RAM one works, but my GMC one does not work on deceleration. Because if you are sitting there, dead still, zero deceleration, and you push the brake pedel, the trailer braking goes up directly proportional to how hard you push the pedal, you push the pedal with medium force, it gives you 50% trailer braking force, you push it hard, it gives you 100% , which is the optimal way to do it from my perspective.

Then you can adjust the bias from there electronically based on how heavy of a load you are carrying on the trailer.

Now, I haven't looked into it to see if they are measuring pedal force, or hydraulic brake pressure, but pressure seems like the easier one to do aftermarket as it would just be a sensor in the brake line, and I am guessing they are using brake pressure since it has ABS, Stabilitrak, etc.
 
Hydraulic/electric are old school.

Electronic potentiometer units are what has been used for the last couple of decades. They have gotten better over the years.

The one in the semi, as with all of today's controllers, used the brake light switch to turn it on. Had 12v feed with key on. When the brake lights come on, the potentiometer then sends power to the trailer.

The good thing about the modern units is, once they are installed and adjusted, if you are going down hill, the brakes come on a little harder. Less going up hill.

If you are running a 3 axle trailer, you have to get one designed for them.
 
folkenheath said:
I don't know how the RAM one works, but my GMC one does not work on deceleration. Because if you are sitting there, dead still, zero deceleration, and you push the brake pedel, the trailer braking goes up directly proportional to how hard you push the pedal, you push the pedal with medium force, it gives you 50% trailer braking force, you push it hard, it gives you 100% , which is the optimal way to do it from my perspective.

Now, I haven't looked into it to see if they are measuring pedal force, or hydraulic brake pressure, but pressure seems like the easier one to do aftermarket as it would just be a sensor in the brake line.
Click to expand...
Well that is stupid. Means the potentiometer is on the pedal. Not momentum applied. The prodigy units do not work like GM. They also show actual voltage being sent.
 
In my opinion, momentum applied is indirect and not as good, measuring when you start slowing down and then trying to apply it based on that is an indirect application of brakes.

With the pressure method, you are directly linked to the brake pressure you apply. Makes total sense to me. I doubt there is a potentiometer on the pedal, but its possible, I would guess, since with Stabilitrak they can brake just one wheel, that they are using a pressure sensor, and basing it on that, which is a much more direct way to do it.

In fact it makes so much sense I didn't believe it would be accelerometer based so I just went out and plugged the trailer in and tested that. Works wonderful in the truck slow speed, freeway speed and everything in between whether I am towing 3000 lbs or 10,000 lbs. I bet all the DMax trucks are the same way, I towed 18,000 with my fathers.

I am sure you have towed a lot more than me Wade!
 
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I can see how the changed braking based on the inclination could be helpful.

I wonder if the GMC does that at all, it does have a display where it tells you the exact angle of the truck both axis and how far the front wheels are turned. And it does have grade braking it uses I know that, but don't know if it adjusts trailer output based on that.

Good discussion Wade, even if I am splitting hairs. I over analyze a lot of stuff, it's in my nature.
 
So the GM factory units don't go specifically off of brake pressure, but pedal travel. They have a brake pedal position sensor that gives the input of where the pedal is at in its travel as well as knowing how fast/slow the pedal is moving. The trailer brake control module takes in that data and how much gain you have dialed in to apply the trailer brakes. However, to complicate matters further the signal applied to the trailer brakes from the module is pulse-width modulated (PWM) so it's not a straight voltage on the line. If anybody has put a quicky trailer light/signal checker device to make sure the wiring on the truck is ok, you would notice the LED for the trailer brake signal barely lights up if not at all when the brakes are applied. The reason behind that is the PWM and a lack of the load of the trailer brake magnets. If you check the circuit with a voltmeter there would be a value that would fluctuate. One of my techs actually built a test box with a 7-way trailer plug, LEDs for the trailer lights and two trailer brake magnets, and a LED indicator for the trailer brake circuit. The box put enough of a load on the TBCM that the LED indicator would come on.

The GM factory system has the advantage to use inputs it normally uses for the service brake/abs system to use more than an on/off signal for the brake lights. Though the prodigy P2 does a damn good job in it's own right for an aftermarket unit. We sell them at the shop now and I lost count how many we installed at the dealership on trucks that didn't have a factory controller. Check it out for yourself.
https://www.tekonsha.com/product/90885_trailer-brake-control-proportional
 
Thanks guys.

So they really did set it based on the brake pedal and not pressure, interesting. My guess was wrong on that one, I would of thought they already know brake pressure for the ABS. But I suppose it might be a like the transmission, they only monitor the pressure control current in the force motor, but not the actual pressure. If that is the case they don't know the actual brake pressure?

You guys like the Tekonsha so much I may use this new one they have just came out with this year I found from this discussion that hides the controller and has a dash mounted operation knob, looks like the best option available, although I don't plan to use the bluetooth, you can adjust everything with the knob.

TEKONSHA | 90920 | Prodigy® iD Smart Phone Configured Brake Controller for Trailers with 1-4 Axles, Black

Tekonsha | Brake Controllers
www.tekonsha.com www.tekonsha.com


90920_b.jpg
 
I think the brake pressure is monitored in the abs side of things but I don’t remember reading anything to say that gets used in the trailer brake control.

I think redarc has a similar knob style trailer brake controller like that unit too. Don’t have any experience with either but it does take away the knee knocker issue the regular ones create.
 
I saw that redarc one but it seems as though Tekonsha has a better following so I thought I should stick with their control method if I can't get the brake pressure control method I was looking for.
 
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