I noticed that after my '86 K5 has been sitting for a few days my transmission doesn't want to work on startup. I usually have to let the engine run for 5 to 10 seconds before the transmission will move the truck. My guess is that the transmission needs that amount of time to pump tranny fluid. Should I be concerned here? Will this prematurely wear my transmission out? This transmission was rebuilt a year or so ago and only has about 4,000 miles on it.
CK5
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Transmission Question- Takes 5-1- Seconds to Move Truck
- Thread starter PWagon
- Start date
Sounds like converter drainback which means the torque converter is draining down some when the truck sits and it has to refill before it can move the truck when a gear is selected. There are inline check valves available to help prevent this phenomenon that go into the return line on the trans from the cooler.
I guess you could argue the point that a converter that is partially empty could suffer some wear but that would be a stretch. The clutches will be engaged since the pump is still doing it's thing, so the short answer would be no, not really any extra wear to speak of.
Greg, you're the expert, but I have run into that same problem with my C6, and its always low on fluid......
If his was just rebuilt, there may be a leak.
Mine is the short piece of rubber hose from the cooler line to the radiator. About every 3 or 4 years, its starts to seep, and I don't notice it until the transmission fails to shift at first one morning.
He might check the fluid.
If its full, then its your explanation.
If his was just rebuilt, there may be a leak.
Mine is the short piece of rubber hose from the cooler line to the radiator. About every 3 or 4 years, its starts to seep, and I don't notice it until the transmission fails to shift at first one morning.
He might check the fluid.
If its full, then its your explanation.
Good point sir, always check the cheap and easy before plunging into it, good advise for sure.
That is part of the way I have earned my rep around here for walking into places where the other experts have been working and failed, looking around, fixing it and walking out.........
I'm the guy who asks..." Is is plugged in?"
I love it when one of the guys starts getting testy at my starting with the dead bottom basics.
They go, " Of course its plugged in, of course its got power, of course the circuit breaker.......Oops....
More times than I can count.
I'm the guy who asks..." Is is plugged in?"
I love it when one of the guys starts getting testy at my starting with the dead bottom basics.
They go, " Of course its plugged in, of course its got power, of course the circuit breaker.......Oops....
More times than I can count.
Thats like the time I walked into my friends shop,and he said he had to replace a transfer case in a later model GM pickup...
I said "huh,you dont hear about those grenading very often"..."whats wrong with it"?...
"It wont move,and the tranny is working OK,far as I can tell...
So I asked "did you see if its in gear"?...he gives me the "go away" look...
..."Yeah,like it would be THAT simple!"...
I got in the truck and started it,put it in drive,and sure enough,I heard something spinning,but it wouldn't move...I reached down and pulled the tranfer case lever back,and it made a horrible grinding noise!..put the tranny back in neutral,shifted the t-case into 2wd,and ta-da!--it works!..
..
He had to call the salvage yard and tell them he wont be needing that T-case they delivered just before I arrived..
It turned out the woman who last drove the truck used the t-case lever as a purse holder,she must have yanked on the lever when she grabbed her purse--then it refused to move when she went to leave the store she was at,and assumed the "tranny died!"..
Another time I walked in his shop,he was bent over under the hood of a Ford Ranger pickup,that would crank over,but not start...he had his test lamp and voltmeter out,and by the look on his face,I could tell he was not having a fun day...he grumpily tells me he spent "all morning" tracing wires,but could not find any problem.."It must have an alarm or "security" problem,or maybe the key has a dead chip in it--I dont know"...
Then he told me the guy who dropped it off ,had just bought it at a local auto auction...I asked "did you check the fuses?"...he frowns at me and said "No,but I DOUBT its something THAT stupid!"...(He is the kind of guy that will drop a gas tank and throw in a new fuel pump ,and later find a broken wire,bad relay,etc,when the new pump fails to cure the problem--)..
He opened the fuse panel thats beside the drivers side door on the dash,and I saw a fuse drop on the floor..I point it out,he says in an exasparated tone--Yeah,I saw it--it was probably a spare fuse that fell off the cover panel..
Well,after a few minutes,he spots an empty fuse socket--the one that says "ECM" on it...he plugged the fuse in,I turned the key,and it fired up on the first turn...he just looked at me with a "drop dead" look...then we both laughed...
...we both knew that people at auctions often "sabotage" a vehicle they want to buy,hoping it'll sell for a lower price if it doesn't run..I bet thats just what happened!..
I said "huh,you dont hear about those grenading very often"..."whats wrong with it"?...
"It wont move,and the tranny is working OK,far as I can tell...
So I asked "did you see if its in gear"?...he gives me the "go away" look...
..."Yeah,like it would be THAT simple!"...I got in the truck and started it,put it in drive,and sure enough,I heard something spinning,but it wouldn't move...I reached down and pulled the tranfer case lever back,and it made a horrible grinding noise!..put the tranny back in neutral,shifted the t-case into 2wd,and ta-da!--it works!..
..He had to call the salvage yard and tell them he wont be needing that T-case they delivered just before I arrived..
It turned out the woman who last drove the truck used the t-case lever as a purse holder,she must have yanked on the lever when she grabbed her purse--then it refused to move when she went to leave the store she was at,and assumed the "tranny died!"..
Another time I walked in his shop,he was bent over under the hood of a Ford Ranger pickup,that would crank over,but not start...he had his test lamp and voltmeter out,and by the look on his face,I could tell he was not having a fun day...he grumpily tells me he spent "all morning" tracing wires,but could not find any problem.."It must have an alarm or "security" problem,or maybe the key has a dead chip in it--I dont know"...
Then he told me the guy who dropped it off ,had just bought it at a local auto auction...I asked "did you check the fuses?"...he frowns at me and said "No,but I DOUBT its something THAT stupid!"...(He is the kind of guy that will drop a gas tank and throw in a new fuel pump ,and later find a broken wire,bad relay,etc,when the new pump fails to cure the problem--)..
He opened the fuse panel thats beside the drivers side door on the dash,and I saw a fuse drop on the floor..I point it out,he says in an exasparated tone--Yeah,I saw it--it was probably a spare fuse that fell off the cover panel..
Well,after a few minutes,he spots an empty fuse socket--the one that says "ECM" on it...he plugged the fuse in,I turned the key,and it fired up on the first turn...he just looked at me with a "drop dead" look...then we both laughed...
...we both knew that people at auctions often "sabotage" a vehicle they want to buy,hoping it'll sell for a lower price if it doesn't run..I bet thats just what happened!..No, there is no leak, and the fluid level checks normal. In fact, the truck has zero leaks anywhere (completely dry drive way). I check both the oil and transmission fluid once a week for peace of mind. When I replaced the transmission I also replaced the factory trans fluid lines with stainless steel braided lines with AN fittings. So, it must be the torque converter leaking down.
I had a TH350 that refused to move forward until the engine had been run anywhere from a minute to several minutes,once it went into gear it could be driven anywhere with zero issues though...
I asked several transmission shops what they thought it might be,I got a range of answers--one guy said the pressure regulator valve might be sticking,another said no,it wouldn't have any reverse either if that was the case,he suggested it might be loose valve body bolts,or a valve in the valve body sticking,a bad gasket between the case and valve body,or maybe a crack in the passages the valve body sits on (cross-porosity)...
I was told by the person who rebuilt it I had sold it to after I swapped a SM-465 in the truck,had found a forward clutch piston "lip seal" had a tear in it,and was hardened up--I guess once it warmed up some it sealed well enough to apply the forward clutches ?...
I asked several transmission shops what they thought it might be,I got a range of answers--one guy said the pressure regulator valve might be sticking,another said no,it wouldn't have any reverse either if that was the case,he suggested it might be loose valve body bolts,or a valve in the valve body sticking,a bad gasket between the case and valve body,or maybe a crack in the passages the valve body sits on (cross-porosity)...
I was told by the person who rebuilt it I had sold it to after I swapped a SM-465 in the truck,had found a forward clutch piston "lip seal" had a tear in it,and was hardened up--I guess once it warmed up some it sealed well enough to apply the forward clutches ?...
My th350 kinda did this but it was mainly reverse. Would take about 5 seconds then it would go into reverse. The torque convertor sheared the splines on the pump. It just got worse and worse. After a new rebuild it does what it should.
Thats like the time I walked into my friends shop,and he said he had to replace a transfer case in a later model GM pickup...
I said "huh,you dont hear about those grenading very often"..."whats wrong with it"?...
"It wont move,and the tranny is working OK,far as I can tell...
So I asked "did you see if its in gear"?...he gives me the "go away" look...
I got in the truck and started it,put it in drive,and sure enough,I heard something spinning,but it wouldn't move...I reached down and pulled the tranfer case lever back,and it made a horrible grinding noise!..put the tranny back in neutral,shifted the t-case into 2wd,and ta-da!--it works!..
He had to call the salvage yard and tell them he wont be needing that T-case they delivered just before I arrived..
It turned out the woman who last drove the truck used the t-case lever as a purse holder,she must have yanked on the lever when she grabbed her purse--then it refused to move when she went to leave the store she was at,and assumed the "tranny died!"..
Another time I walked in his shop,he was bent over under the hood of a Ford Ranger pickup,that would crank over,but not start...he had his test lamp and voltmeter out,and by the look on his face,I could tell he was not having a fun day...he grumpily tells me he spent "all morning" tracing wires,but could not find any problem.."It must have an alarm or "security" problem,or maybe the key has a dead chip in it--I dont know"...
Then he told me the guy who dropped it off ,had just bought it at a local auto auction...I asked "did you check the fuses?"...he frowns at me and said "No,but I DOUBT its something THAT stupid!"...(He is the kind of guy that will drop a gas tank and throw in a new fuel pump ,and later find a broken wire,bad relay,etc,when the new pump fails to cure the problem--)..
He opened the fuse panel thats beside the drivers side door on the dash,and I saw a fuse drop on the floor..I point it out,he says in an exasparated tone--Yeah,I saw it--it was probably a spare fuse that fell off the cover panel..
Well,after a few minutes,he spots an empty fuse socket--the one that says "ECM" on it...he plugged the fuse in,I turned the key,and it fired up on the first turn...he just looked at me with a "drop dead" look...then we both laughed...
I long ago learned through trial and error to ALWAYS check the easy stuff first. My most embarassing misstep was when I replaced a set of lifters because of a ticking noise and the problem was a cracked flexplate
. A little time with a stethoscope and some reading would have saved some effort. My buddy called me the other day, he has a square body and he'd put a new window in it, but the power window wasn't working. He'd spent time checking fuses, the switch, voltage, etc. I was like "That system is pretty simple--you were digging around in the door, did you knock the plug to the motor loose?" Silence. Turned out to be the problem!
No one is calling you "stupid"---I see nothing in your first posting quoted here saying the fluid level was OK,you didn't state that until post #9,after Fordman and I suggested checking the simple things first...we're not here to make anyone feel "stupid",we're only trying to help...sorry if my posts came across that way...
No worries. There are no hurt feelings on my part at all, and I have no insecurities on my intelligence either. Like I said, I did mention earlier (not in in the first post, but earlier) that the fluid level was fine. It's just waiting 10 seconds or so after startup gets real old real fast. I don't think it's quite bad enough to justify taking the tranny out and doing any work to it yet, so I'll just keep my cool and deal with it for the time being. Thanks guys for all the suggestions.
10 seconds is better than "minutes",like my old TH350 took to go into forward gears..but it might be an indication of impending troubles...I drove my '72 K5 for 2+ years that way without it ever leaving me stranded,I never really "trusted" it either though!..
It might not hurt to try installing a check valve as Greg suggested,see if that helps any...I have seen some Dodge vehicles,Caravans in particular,that had factory installed check valves in-line to the tranny cooler that either failed or got blocked up,and the van couldn't go into gear "instantly" or not at all in a few cases--chopping the valve out of the line and splicing it with rubber hose as a test seemed to eliminate the trouble..
It wouldn't hurt to drop the pan and check the valve body bolts for tightness --if any are loose the gasket under it may be leaking --and make sure the filter is installed correctly,the "push in" type with O-rings can sometimes not go in all the way,and they will let air get sucked in instead of fluid...if the filter sits too close to the bottom of the pan it might cause this...
It might not hurt to try installing a check valve as Greg suggested,see if that helps any...I have seen some Dodge vehicles,Caravans in particular,that had factory installed check valves in-line to the tranny cooler that either failed or got blocked up,and the van couldn't go into gear "instantly" or not at all in a few cases--chopping the valve out of the line and splicing it with rubber hose as a test seemed to eliminate the trouble..
It wouldn't hurt to drop the pan and check the valve body bolts for tightness --if any are loose the gasket under it may be leaking --and make sure the filter is installed correctly,the "push in" type with O-rings can sometimes not go in all the way,and they will let air get sucked in instead of fluid...if the filter sits too close to the bottom of the pan it might cause this...
michael0584
1/2 ton status
Wouldn't hurt to change the filter. It could be partially plugged up.
