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Tread Width vs. Tire Heigth

rjfguitar

rjfguitar

3/4 ton status
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Should Tread width be considered just as important as tire heigth when a "size" is determined as maximum for an axle?
for example people consider a 35" about the maximum size for a 10b or d44, but how wide? I run a set of 35"x16"x16.5 boggers on weld 16.5x14's and the total tread width is a hair short of 14", thats only about 1.5" less than the 44" bogger! I sweat it every time I get off the pavement with my front 3/4 10b. Just thinking maybe we should give a heigth and width when a post comes up " how big of a tire on a 10b" or any other axle. what do you guys think? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

85K5 3/4ton 14bolt,10bolt,9" lift,35"boggers,16.5x14welds,big horse 406SBC/700r4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
I'm guessing tire weight is more important than the size, although greater contact patch with the ground could be harder on an axle, depending on what you are doing with it.
 
Bobby,

I have to say it's a rather "academic" question....

You already KNOW that you're pushing your luck with the current axle setup, so I'd argue that you already KNOW that breakage will be a part of your future. No amount of "opinions" from fellow CK5'ers will keep your u-joints from exploding, or keep your stubshafts from blowing their ears off!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It kind of sucks to think that you are "driving scared" with the setup you've got.....seems like it's kind of ruining the fun for you. I'd say, just carry a few spare stub shafts and u-joints and then hit a trail to see if it's REALLY as bad as you think. Maybe you are a gentle enough driver to help it to live for a while???

Then again, you might be the kind of candidate for whom a few "select" upgrades are appropriate......not QUITE a large enough of a tire that a D60 is mandatory, but maybe just a bit too BIG (width & weightwise) for a totally stock axle......

You are still going to have to wheel it a little to find the weakest link, but if I had to guess I'd say u-joints will be the first thing to go. At that point, swap in some CTMs.....maybe that's all you'll need...?
 
Thanks for your opinion and yeah I'm right on the verge of breaking my stock front 10b in half. What upgrades do you think are necessary? I figure moser shafts, CTM's and a posi but then the R&P are on the edge in my mind so maybe a good r+p like richmond. After all that is purchased it would probably be cheaper to go D60 and have all the other benefits of a bigger front axle plus the oohs and aahs and bragging rights. do you think a 10b with the above mentioned would last just fine in some hard wheeling( truck pulls, tug of war, mud)? keep in mind I have a 400HP 406SBC and a led foot. I'm thinking a D60. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

85K5 3/4ton,14bolt,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
I can hear yer balljoints screamin from here with them 16" wide boggers hangin off the ends of yer axle /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think keepin the tires skinnier on a 1/2 ton axle will help it live longer.
 
Yep, will probably have ball joint problems but when they wear out I will fix them with a Dana 60 front. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Wouldn't trade my boggers in for pizza slicers any day, looks great with welds and boggers. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

85K5 3/4ton,14bolt,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
common guys now your making me really nervous. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Anybody want to sell me a front Dana 60. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

85K5 3/4ton,14bolt,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
You can have my whole 1 ton truck, D60 and all for $3k. Come and get it this weekend and drive it home. You can ditch your worthless 700R4 and whatever aluminum transfer case is behind it while you're at it. It won't hold up to a 400 small block anyway.

My bets are on cooking the 700 long before breaking any front axle component from a through road thrashing.
 
I have been over the transmission topic with you before and if you remember I'm the guy with the corvette/race equipped 700 that is stronger and more efficiant than any stock th400. Like I said before it's all about building them right and anyone that doesn't understand that shouldn't comment about them. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif And I don't want a whole truck I want a front 60 for cheap of course. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif As for my aluminum 208, hasn't broke yet and probably wont plus a much lower low range than a 205.

85K5 3/4ton,14bolt,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/corvette 700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
If I were to put money on it. I'd say the 208 is the weak link. I'm push'n damn close to 400ponys well more like 375 and when I had a 208 behind it I blew that sucker to pieces. Replaced it with another 208 and broke the back cover in half on it. Your comment on the 700, "it's all about building them right and anyone that doesn't understand that shouldn't comment about them" is right on. Don't get me wrong 10bolts are weak, but they can handle some abuse, just depends on the person driving. I've broke just about every piece on my 10/12bolts that was replaceable with 33's. When I had 36's on them the only thing I broke was u-joint's and plenty of them. I would of probably broke more stuff by now, but Im running 1tons now. As far as being scared when you wheel, well in my book that just sucks. Being cautious is one thing, but scared is another. A 16" wide tire is kinda big IMHO, but everyone has their own favorite flavor.

I cant believe nobody remembers back when 44's on 10bolts was popular. However that was back in the 80's and I wouldn't do it, yet it was still a coomon thing.
 
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I cant believe nobody remembers back when 44's on 10bolts was popular. However that was back in the 80's and I wouldn't do it, yet it was still a coomon thing.

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and rememer the monster trucks had STIIIIIIIIFFFF suspensions????
 
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I have been over the transmission topic with you before and if you remember I'm the guy with the corvette/race equipped 700 that is stronger and more efficiant than any stock th400. Like I said before it's all about building them right and anyone that doesn't understand that shouldn't comment about them. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif And I don't want a whole truck I want a front 60 for cheap of course. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif As for my aluminum 208, hasn't broke yet and probably wont plus a much lower low range than a 205.

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Ok then, your loss. I'm pulling the engine from the truck today, you lost your chance.

A 700 may hold up to racing or a corvette, but a truck is a far different application, and you WILL break it, it's just a matter of time.

But back to the topic, as soon as that engine comes over the radiator support the 1 ton is no longer for sale so you lose. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

1 ton here I come.
 
Like I said I don't want a whole truck so pull away. If your so convinced that my proffesionally built stout 700 is going to break than I'm sure you relize that your th400 will break first. When it does I can get you a good 700, better than your soon to be broken th400 for cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Oh and your right on the truck application thing tb400's belong in tow vehicles and muscle cars because of their very high first gear, and a 700 has a great crawling low first gear. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

85K5 3/4ton,14bolt,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
( 4gunz4x4z) What kind of wheeling were you doing when you broke your 208's. I have thought about going with a 205 but only If I break the 208. Is the 205 a direct bolt in? I have a slip yoke on my 208.

The reason the 700 gets such a bad wrap is because of some of these guys are always talking bad about them and some of them haven't even owned a 700! Some of them break old 700's and then think they are sooo terrible, but like everything else it needs to be built up and built right. I broke the TH400 in my 1 ton but you don't hear me saying " get rid of that worthless 400 while your at it." Guys shouldn't dog parts because they don't know enough about them! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
I still see guys with 10bolts and 44"s and it looks very goofy.snap, crack, pop, bang. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

85K5 3/4ton,14bolt,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
If you realy want an aftermarket shaft pass on the Moser and get the Warns. Better product and better warentee.
 
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and rememer the monster trucks had STIIIIIIIIFFFF suspensions????


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Doh... what suspension? /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif


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( 4gunz4x4z) What kind of wheeling were you doing when you broke your 208's.

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The first time I broke a 208 was on a hill that was about 35' feet up at a 70 degree + angle (just a guess) covered with small rocks and loose dirt. Better known as U-joint hill. I was smashing the skinny pedal to the floor and giving her hell. I cant remember if I was in low or high for sure, but chances are I was in low. I felt like something was gonna give, but I was bound and determinded to conquer that hill. Needless to say I didn't do it that day. That 208 sounded like a bomb when it went off....like a bomb. The second time was while rock crawlin. Something had to go, just happened to be the 208.


If you go to a 205, it is not a direct bolt in. advance adapters should have an adapter for your application. As far as the rest of it is concerned you will have to redrill holes for your crossmember. Change the length on your drivshafts and change the rear driveshaft from a slip yoke to a fixed yoke.

Beside the 208 being an aluminum case the rear slip yoke is also a weak link.
 
I don't think it's the width directly, but it is certainly part of the equation. The three things that will stress the axle and U-joints are the weight of the tire, the height of the tire and the distance the tire sticks out. The third one will be a combination of tire width, wheel width and wheel offset. This is the lever arm of the tire onto the ball joints.

Also, given two tires of the same weight, but different diameters, the one with larger diamter will stress the axleshafts (and brakes) more since it has more rotational inertia. Wound up to the same speed, the taller tire has more ability to snap parts when it grabs.
 
Strange, my uniroyal 33x12.5" on steel 10" wide rims seem to weigh more than my BFG 35x12.5" on 10" alloy. It seems the BFG tires are lighter, I cant imagine the rims being that much lighter.
 
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