Using governor from a 6-cylinder

[Blue85]

Has anyone ever put a governor from a 4 or 6-cylinder tranny in a V-8 tranny to raise the shift points?

You all know how I'm always just leaving well-enough alone and never tinkering with new ideas, right? OK, not.

So I am working on raising the 700-R4 shift points. I am like 4300 at WOT now after my other changes and always shifting a little early during normal driving. I did some grinding on the governor weights last night, but I notice no difference now in shift points. Instead of blowing $49 on a shift-point-kit, I went to my favorite local transmission shop (they have whole garages filled with shelves piled up with tranny parts everywhere) and paid $10 for another complete governor assembly and some springs.

The guy told me that it was a governor from a 4-cylinder or 6-cylinder car. I didn't know that you could get a 700 behind a 4-cylinder and I know that some V-6's (GN, Typhoon) got the 200R-4. Obviously a 700 or 200 would only be in a rear-wheel drive. So maybe it's from
a Camaro with the 2.8 V-6? It is just like my old governor, but the weight part that is normally attached to the little levers is missing. So the only weight is the lever itself.

Is this going to make the shifts sky high?

At least now I have 3 weight combinations and 3 spring combinations (Heavy/Heavy, Heavy/Light and Light/Light) to try. Accounting for combos that give the same result and adding in that reversing the springs when both weights and springs have one light and one heavy could make a difference, that's 10 combinations. I hope I don't have to try too many before it's right.

It's probably also a compromise since the shift rpm's won't be exactly the same for all gears.

Anybody have experience with this?

Note: the guy said that there is also a governor from cop cars and corvettes/irocs that has pointy-shaped weights, but he couldn't find one (They have lots of parts, but are very unorganized)

 

[Calclips]

I've always heard that a corvette governor would raise shift points. 700's came behind most 4.3L engines in s10 blazers and such, so I don't know if a governor from one of those would raise the shift points much if any. This Link contains a lot of good information about 700's, and may have the answer to your question buried in it somewhere. I have gathered, mainly from your opening sentence which sounds like sarcasim to me, that you like to tinker... so you may even find a few things in here that you could do to your 700 to make it last longer, shift harder, and just plain be more cool... /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

 

[Calclips]

I didn't even notice that you were from michigan when I posted, where at in MI are you? I live near Flint, inbetween Flint and the owosso/corunna area in "Swartz Creek"

 

[dyeager535]

First off, yes, beleive the 700 came in the 2.8 pattern for the Camaro's.

Second, don't think engine has anything to do with hift points. The governor works on centrifugal force, and to my understanding of operation, as it spins faster (higher vehicle speed/engine RPM) the weights move out, finally enough to open (or is it close?) the governor valve.

Sooo..if the weights spin out at higher RPM's to "force" the shift, wouldn't ADDING weight to the flyweights increase the shift RPM, and loosing weight would DECREASE the points? (makes sense as long as weights out=shift)

So in my thinking, the application only matters based on teh desired performance. A 2.8 should shift LOWER than say a Corvette or Z28 application, solely because a 2.8 is a POS. (in a RWD sports car, IMO) Perhaps GM did raise the shift point/rear gears to compensate for the weak 2.8, and thus higher shift point, but I really doubt that say, a Vette, would shift at a lower speed than a 2.8.

I'd guess that the 700 doesn't use the governor SOLELY to shift, so maybe the reason you noticed nothing from removing the weight is that whatever else affects the shift, takes over at right where your low shift point is now...basically preventing it from shifting at any lower RPM. (kind of like the TH400 downshifting even without the kickdown solenoid, if the RPM is low enough and power input from the engine is high)

 

[Blue85]

Calclips,
Thanks for the link. I have already done a lot of research on 700's and have already put a lot of goodies into mine.

dyeager,
I also think that the shift points should be at similar points, regardless of the engine, but there could be other differences in the trannies or the vehicles with smaller engines. Perhaps the line pressure that feeds the governor is different, for example. There is a valve in the 700 regulating pressure that is supposed to correspond to engine torque (I can't remember it's name). A smaller engine should produce less torque, so some of this stuff may have been scaled appropriately. I would imagine that a 700 in an S-10 with a V-6 would require far less line pressure for reasonable shifts than a heavy full-size with a V-8. But I'm just supposing based on what I heard.

 

[dyeager535]

I htink you are talking about the boost valve. Theres a reverse one too, at least in a 200-4R. I replaced both of them with much larger ones in mine, which is apparently critical when putting them behind an engine larger than they were ever designed for.

I beleive you are right, they do boost line pressure.

My first point might be slightly misleading, I meant that the governor is not sensing engine torque or throttle position (directly acting on it) only the RPM that it is spun at by the output (I think) shaft.

 

[Blue85]

Yes, the governer is driven directly from the output shaft.

Well, I have the governor with the smaller weights in and so far it seems pretty good. I was expecting a more drastic change in shift points from the large difference in weights. I am glad now that I didn't just keep grinding away on the weights. The shifts seem to be more where I want them to, now. I still need to hold my foot on the floor and check the WOT 1-2 and 2-3 shift rpms, though, to make sure they are not too high.

So I'll evaluate it for a few day and then decide if I want to swap either of the springs.

 

[Blue85]

I am in Saginaw. I have run at the Mounds before, which is near your neck of the woods.

I tried to find the WOT 1-2 upshift point this weekend and all I can say is that it is somewhere above 5000rpm. I am too chicken to keep it on the floor to find it. Otherwise, all of the shifting happens just how I like it, so I want to leave it alone. I think my log manifolds are really limiting my high-rpm power, so the engine doesn't even pull through that rpm range as quickly as I'd like.