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Vaccum reference pressure regulator

cybrfire

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Just doing some reading in here and got to thinking about some tuning issues on my blazer.

Could the vaccum reference on my fuel pressure regulator be causing some of my issues? It has a big lopey cam.

Thinking about this, When it settles down to an idle, the vaccum drops down real low, then the rpm shoots up again on its own, without any input of the throttle.

I may just disconnect the vaccum line and plug the port and see what happens.
 
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i no expert. but if vac is bouncing at idle then i bet the fuel pump dont have a clue what to think.

mabye do a storage tank of sorts to filter the vac signal and try that. kind of like a brake booster storage bottle for big cams.
 
Since when does a fuel pump have a vacuum reference? :confused: You sure you don't mean a fuel pressure regulator?

I did type that didn't I.:doah:

Yeah, its the regulator, my bad.
 
It is possible, because as vacuum drops your fuel pressure will increase causing more fuel at that moment( if it's not tuned back out). But if you do unplug it is going to make it richer at all times except WOT.

What timing are you running at idle? Big cams like a lot of timing at idle. I remember you have an MSD box, but I don't remember if it is controlled by a regular distibutor or if you have timing control in your XFI?

How much vacuum do you have at idle? Do you have at least 8 inHg? If you do, make sure you run a vacuum advance can that is all in by 8", and plug it into full manifold vacuum, not ported. This will help lean your mixture and improve your idle too.

If you have less than 8 inHg, then in all honesty, I would just weld the distributor solid and lock the timing. It will help with throttle response and improved idle too. You will just want either an electronic start retard (built into the Digital 6), or a switch to turn the spark off. Then, if it ever cranks slow when it's hot, you can just turn the spark off, and then once the engine is cranking over then flip it back on.

If you have programmable timing with the EFI then nevermind my old distributor comments!
 
It is possible, because as vacuum drops your fuel pressure will increase causing more fuel at that moment( if it's not tuned back out). But if you do unplug it is going to make it richer at all times except WOT.

What timing are you running at idle? Big cams like a lot of timing at idle. I remember you have an MSD box, but I don't remember if it is controlled by a regular distibutor or if you have timing control in your XFI?

How much vacuum do you have at idle? Do you have at least 8 inHg? If you do, make sure you run a vacuum advance can that is all in by 8", and plug it into full manifold vacuum, not ported. This will help lean your mixture and improve your idle too.

If you have less than 8 inHg, then in all honesty, I would just weld the distributor solid and lock the timing. It will help with throttle response and improved idle too. You will just want either an electronic start retard (built into the Digital 6), or a switch to turn the spark off. Then, if it ever cranks slow when it's hot, you can just turn the spark off, and then once the engine is cranking over then flip it back on.

If you have programmable timing with the EFI then nevermind my old distributor comments!

AFAIK, the timing isn't adjustable in the XFI. I don't have a steady vaccum above 8inHg. It bounces but as low as 5inHg.

Setting the timing was kinda confusing. We set it all according to XFI instructions and recommendations for this engine. No vaccum can on the dizzy. It's a MSD pro billet.

Wouldn't eliminating the vaccum reference to the regulator lean it out rather than richen?
 
the vacuum your supposed to be getting at idle lowers the fuel pressure.. disconnecting the vac from the reg should raise fuel pressure when the motor is supposed to be making vacuum at idle...
 
AFAIK, the timing isn't adjustable in the XFI. I don't have a steady vaccum above 8inHg. It bounces but as low as 5inHg.

Setting the timing was kinda confusing. We set it all according to XFI instructions and recommendations for this engine. No vaccum can on the dizzy. It's a MSD pro billet.

Wouldn't eliminating the vaccum reference to the regulator lean it out rather than richen?

No, the vacuum lowers fuel pressure, so removing it will increase fuel pressure, and make it more rich. The vacuum is applied on the same side of the diaphram as the spring, so the vacuum actually helps compress the spring and reduce the pressure. My engine on the gauge used to makes about 12 inHg of vacuum at idle, but according to the MAP with the EFI now, it makes about 15 inHg and it lowers my fuel pressure from 50 psi down to about 42 or so.

If you only have 5" of vacuum at times, then I would definitely put the included bushing in that MSD distributor to "lock" the timing (eliminate the mechanical advance). What MSD box do you have 6AL, Digital 6+, 6AL2? If it has a start retard (Digital 6+ does, maybe 6AL2 does as well?), enable it. If not, then use a switch (grounding the white wire on the 6AL will do it) to enable you to shut the spark off to crank the engine easier if everything is hot. With that cam and your setup, the only reason you need a timnig retard is to start it up. What stall converter do you have?

With no vacuum advance, and only mechanical, your engine has very low timing at idle, your cam probably doesn't like that. Locking the distributor will give you a lot of that timing back, it will be more responsive and idle smoother, actually giving you a more stable idle, you will probably have to turn the idle down some actually to get back to where you were. It just may crank harder, but you can fix that, may not even be a problem.

Also, with only 5" of vacuum, I hope you have hydroboost brakes?

i no expert. but if vac is bouncing at idle then i bet the fuel pump dont have a clue what to think.

mabye do a storage tank of sorts to filter the vac signal and try that. kind of like a brake booster storage bottle for big cams.

That's a good thought, but you don't want to do that with the regulator. Because the storage tanks usually work with a check valve to store the vacuum when the engine loses it. However, if you hook the regulator up to vacuum, then when you floor the engine, vacuum is supposed to drop, and increase fuel pressure. However, the storage tank would still supply vacuum to the regulator, keeping fuel pressure lower, causing the engine to go lean at WOT, not good. You want the regulator to closely follow the engine load.
 
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I think maybe I'm stating my thoughts wrong. I don't want to so much remove the vaccum as i want to remove the ability of the pressure regulator to mess with the mixture at all.

It seems like another set of variables. For instance, when you're crusing around, theres a steadier vaccum slightly higher then at idle. So, when you drop down to idle you are in a sense removing the vaccum which bumps the pressure hence the start of the thread.

I'm sure you're right folkenheath. If I were to do it my way, i'd have to disconnect the vaccum then adjust the pressure down to get things back in to a tune. But then the problem would probably be leaning out when you really get after it.

I'll look into locking out the timing and a way to shut off the spark when cranking if its needed.
 
If you have a higher vacuum reading when cruising than you do at idle you have a vacuum leak somewhere that is affecting the reading at idle. :deal:
 
If you have a higher vacuum reading when cruising than you do at idle you have a vacuum leak somewhere that is affecting the reading at idle. :deal:

Can the cam cause that as well? It's very eratic at idle.
 
Can the cam cause that as well? It's very eratic at idle.

I have ran some REAL NASTY cams in the past in my hot rods and never have I had a vacuum reading at idle that was less than at a steady cruising speed.
 
Can the cam cause that as well? It's very eratic at idle.

Yes, it can. At idle your engine with that much overlap is not trying to pull in much air, and with the valve overlap, that is what gives you the erratic idle. At cruise, your engine RPM is 2 - 3 times that, so it is trying to pull in that much more air, yet the throttle blades are still most likely just above idle. So it will give you more vacuum at cruise. This is exactly why Holley recommends you put a power valve in that is at least 2 inHg lower than your lowest vacuum reading at idle or part throttle driving (whichever is lower) with their carbs. Your cam is doing the same thing with EFI.
 
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Just doing some reading in here and got to thinking about some tuning issues on my blazer.

Could the vaccum reference on my fuel pressure regulator be causing some of my issues? It has a big lopey cam.

Thinking about this, When it settles down to an idle, the vaccum drops down real low, then the rpm shoots up again on its own, without any input of the throttle.

I may just disconnect the vaccum line and plug the port and see what happens.
Since you have helped me, AND make cool stuff I'd like to return the favor. But you really need to post information like what engine? Cam specs @.050? What EFI system..... then maybe, just maybe we can give you an educated answer! :woot:
 
Since you have helped me, AND make cool stuff I'd like to return the favor. But you really need to post information like what engine? Cam specs @.050? What EFI system..... then maybe, just maybe we can give you an educated answer! :woot:


I'll dig up the cam specs don't have them memorized.

It's a 500 cadillac bored .060".
F.A.S.T. XFI


I didn't think the discussion would go much further than the pressure regulator thoughts I was having.

Currently the blazer is sitting in the shop under a tarp. Probably won't get much attention for a while but I'll get the cam specs posted up and perhaps you guys can educate me!
 
And did you have a vacuum reading at idle?

Don't know much about the new XFI so don't get your hopes up, is there any way to adjust via a hand held or laptop?

Did you check your cam timing as well?

Does the distributor have advance or is it in the ECM?

I'll try, if it were GM I'd be a little more help. If this fails do you get tech support there? I've only seen one run and it ran good and got better. You know how to check for vacuum leaks? What's the fuel presure set at? Is it adjustable other than vacuum?

That's should get us going! :waytogo:
 
Just wanted to post an update.

Making some headway on the fuel injection tuning. Little by little. Got some of the timing issues sorted out. Still running a bit rich but we're getting it closer.
 

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