If you have an apple phone I can ship you a wideband O2 sensor / OBDII datalogger you can use if you want. It'll help us to understand what is going on with the engine when it is missing.
CK5
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Vortec: About to start pulling hair....
- Thread starter TerryD
- Start date
Crap, not an Apple-o-phile, all Android here. Torque doesn't log very well from what I've seen.
Did some looking the other night and I've got some "leaky" plug wires STILL, after two sets. Going to swap them this week and see if that helps. I need to do some more watching on the LTFTs now that I've got it going again.
Did some looking the other night and I've got some "leaky" plug wires STILL, after two sets. Going to swap them this week and see if that helps. I need to do some more watching on the LTFTs now that I've got it going again.
Let me check the datalogger one more time. It may be possible to hook it up via USB on a windows device as well (laptop). The module is designed to be wireless but unless you are running a windows XP device with WIFI you won't be able to hook up to it. Microsoft decided not to allow that type of wireless connection since Windows 7. It works great with apple products and there is no android support.
Yep, it'll work with windows on a laptop or tablet with a USB cable as well.
Let me know if you want me to mail it down to you!
Let me know if you want me to mail it down to you!
Thanks for the offer Russell. I'll let you know. I'm going to swap wires this weekend then I'll do what trending I can on my phone and see if I can get some useable data. If not I'll give you a shout or maybe break down and order the WBO2 set up I want too go with EFILive if I ever get it...
If you want, you can just buy my spare WBO2 setup from me. Its an Innovate LC-2 WBO2 controller paired with an OT-2 CAN/OBDII to WiFi or USB interface. The OT-2 reads all the PIDs from your ECM via the OBDII port and takes the signal from the LC-2 for the AFR indication.
I don't really need it as I have an LM-2 which I use primarily. It does all the same stuff but has a handheld display and a built in memory card for recording data on stand alone or I can connect it to my tablet via USB. If I want to tune with EFIlive I can pair it with the LM-2 just the same as an LC-2 for the WBO2 indication.
New cost is $320 for an LC-2 / OT-2 combination. I'd want $100 for my gear but the catch is that you'll need to buy a sensor and sensor extension cable for it ($120 from Innovate). Still saves you $100 over new.
An EFIlive V2 serves the same function as the OT-2 btw. You only really need an LC-2 to provide the 1-5V AFR input. An EFIlive V2 is $900 or so IIRC.
I don't really need it as I have an LM-2 which I use primarily. It does all the same stuff but has a handheld display and a built in memory card for recording data on stand alone or I can connect it to my tablet via USB. If I want to tune with EFIlive I can pair it with the LM-2 just the same as an LC-2 for the WBO2 indication.
New cost is $320 for an LC-2 / OT-2 combination. I'd want $100 for my gear but the catch is that you'll need to buy a sensor and sensor extension cable for it ($120 from Innovate). Still saves you $100 over new.
An EFIlive V2 serves the same function as the OT-2 btw. You only really need an LC-2 to provide the 1-5V AFR input. An EFIlive V2 is $900 or so IIRC.
The LC-2 wa the one I was looking at so I'll take it. Can you wait until next weekend?
Sure! Did you also want the OT-2 for the OBDII capabilities, or are you just going to save up for the V2?
It was the LC-2 and OT-2 for $100, right?
Yep!
I'll take 'em both!
Russell, still want to sell that stuff?
Oh, and here's some info I hadn't found on Torque yet.
Any thoughts? Bad O2 sensor? Any idea which one?
Oh, and here's some info I hadn't found on Torque yet.
Any thoughts? Bad O2 sensor? Any idea which one?
OK, so I've found some information related to those "Mode 6" tests my Burb is failing...
First, unless I'm completely confused, which is entirely possible, the code descriptions listed in Torque do not actually match what my 1999 ECM is testings. I believe this is for the later CANBUS stuff and not the earlier J1850/Class 2. Like I said, this is just what I've gleaned from the reading I've found. The Googlefu is not strong with this one, so correct me if I'm wrong, PLEASE!
TID $02 CID $10
Evap weak vacuum test
TID $07 CID $0c
No EGR off idle test
MAF out of range low
TID $07 CID #0d
EGR decel test
TID $0c CID $20
Idle catalyst efficiency test bank 1
TID $0c CID $30
Idle catalyst efficiency test bank 2
So, I'm still VERY lost here. I can get an O-scope to check the frequency on the MAF I think. Does anyone know what the minimum frequency for it should be? Is it corrected or adjusted in the ECM anywhere or will simply probing the output wire give me the proper readings? I was going to check at both the connector on the MAF and at the ECM.
For the EGR, I'm honestly lost. This is the unit off my K2500 as I swapped them out a while ago to test that and may have actually created another issue with it I guess. I hate to keep throwing money at this thing. I'm already in the "could have bought a nicer/newer replacement vehicle" range on investment...
Both converters are failing efficiency tests, so I'm thinking this if an effect of the other issues. The down stream O2 probe for bank 2 is brand new. Replaced it trying to cure a Catalyst Efficiency code we get when continually short tripping it like taking the kids to school or going for groceries across town. Only getting the bank 2 code though, never throws a bank 1 code.
Suggestions? Any ideas on who I could ask outside the forum?
First, unless I'm completely confused, which is entirely possible, the code descriptions listed in Torque do not actually match what my 1999 ECM is testings. I believe this is for the later CANBUS stuff and not the earlier J1850/Class 2. Like I said, this is just what I've gleaned from the reading I've found. The Googlefu is not strong with this one, so correct me if I'm wrong, PLEASE!
TID $02 CID $10
Evap weak vacuum test
TID $07 CID $0c
No EGR off idle test
MAF out of range low
TID $07 CID #0d
EGR decel test
TID $0c CID $20
Idle catalyst efficiency test bank 1
TID $0c CID $30
Idle catalyst efficiency test bank 2
So, I'm still VERY lost here. I can get an O-scope to check the frequency on the MAF I think. Does anyone know what the minimum frequency for it should be? Is it corrected or adjusted in the ECM anywhere or will simply probing the output wire give me the proper readings? I was going to check at both the connector on the MAF and at the ECM.
For the EGR, I'm honestly lost. This is the unit off my K2500 as I swapped them out a while ago to test that and may have actually created another issue with it I guess. I hate to keep throwing money at this thing. I'm already in the "could have bought a nicer/newer replacement vehicle" range on investment...
Both converters are failing efficiency tests, so I'm thinking this if an effect of the other issues. The down stream O2 probe for bank 2 is brand new. Replaced it trying to cure a Catalyst Efficiency code we get when continually short tripping it like taking the kids to school or going for groceries across town. Only getting the bank 2 code though, never throws a bank 1 code.
Suggestions? Any ideas on who I could ask outside the forum?
EGR valves are finicky things. You need to make sure you get the right one for your specific engine. Sometimes they look the same but there is a difference in orifice size, fail position etc that can all have ill effect on your engine and make it fail the internal tests. Go to GM and give them your VIN number. Get them to look up the correct EGR valve part number for your truck. If the engine is not original then get the VIN number off the engine and get them to compare the two to make sure they are the same.
For your catalyst efficiency code - Did you buy an aftermarket sensor? Bosch in particular seem to be really crappy and fail quite quickly. I won't buy anything but OEM O2 sensors anymore.
For the MAF, check and see how many grams per hour it's flowing. Idle I'd guess around 4 - 5 grams/hr or so and upwards of 130 at WOT and 5000 rpm. You should be able to trend this with your torque app. The ECM takes the raw frequency, converts it to a digital value and applies a scale factor to it internally. I don't believe there is any logic or math done to it otherwise. I'm not sure what the typical frequency range would be.
For your catalyst efficiency code - Did you buy an aftermarket sensor? Bosch in particular seem to be really crappy and fail quite quickly. I won't buy anything but OEM O2 sensors anymore.
For the MAF, check and see how many grams per hour it's flowing. Idle I'd guess around 4 - 5 grams/hr or so and upwards of 130 at WOT and 5000 rpm. You should be able to trend this with your torque app. The ECM takes the raw frequency, converts it to a digital value and applies a scale factor to it internally. I don't believe there is any logic or math done to it otherwise. I'm not sure what the typical frequency range would be.
The EGR came off a 2000 K2500 L31/5.7L and went on a 1999 K1500 L31/5.7. I would think that they are the same exact engine, they should have the same EGR valves. I'll do some looking though and match p/n's.
It was a Bosch O2, but it's the same code and conditions each time. Was still doing it right after changing without any delay or improvement.
*EDIT* According to RockAuto, both engines came with a A/C Delco 17200268 EGR valve originally so compatability shouldn't be an issue. I'll look around and see if I can find another one to try. I think I bunged up one bolt on my K2500 when I swapped them so I don't want to HAVE to deal with that if I can get by right now. Already too much stuff messed up around here and I'm wasting time and money on this thing...
It was a Bosch O2, but it's the same code and conditions each time. Was still doing it right after changing without any delay or improvement.
*EDIT* According to RockAuto, both engines came with a A/C Delco 17200268 EGR valve originally so compatability shouldn't be an issue. I'll look around and see if I can find another one to try. I think I bunged up one bolt on my K2500 when I swapped them so I don't want to HAVE to deal with that if I can get by right now. Already too much stuff messed up around here and I'm wasting time and money on this thing...
owenst7
1/2 ton status
So I just swapped in the 8600+ gvw crate that summit carries in to my '96 k1500 last week. Went with the same Delphi spider that you did and a summit distributor. Zero problems other than having to use the snap on scanner to set the timing. I also replaced the knock, map, both coolant temp, oil pressure, and CPS (just throwing stuff out there that might be a lightbulb, I'm falling asleep Haha).
I didn't take the time to read the whole thread cuz I'm exhausted from work, but if I can give you any sensor readings or whatever shoot me a pm. I'll give you my cell number and maybe we can help brainstorm. I've maintained a few of these engines since they were new and I'm pretty familiar with them.
If you have a flange to unbolt the cats after the upstream O2 sensors, try that. The engine should run 3% lean IIRC, but it will verify if the cats are causing it to run poorly (personally I doubt it though).
The Borg Werner EGR that the Oreilleys parts tree provides for my truck works fine if you need to verify a part number. On the l31 I think all it will do is throw a pintle position code if it's faulty though. I think its only a 3 pin plug.
Setting timing requires using a scanner to monitor can offset retard and rotating the dist. to +/-2°. Most ECMs then require you to reset the cam/crank sensor relationship. Mine was too early in '96 apparently and I do not have that feature.
Sorry if I echoed someone else. Like I said I didn't read the thread. Mostly wanted to offer to help you over the phone if you need to verify some readings with a running engine.
I can give you part numbers for good NGK o2 sensors too (up and downstream). I bought Bosch sensors a few years ago and they stopped working within six months. Never again.
Good luck. I glanced at your thread before I bought my crate engine but forced myself not to read it and be optimistic. I was biting my nails the whole time worrying I'd end up in your shoes. When I cranked it over, it fired up so instantly that it started me and I accidentally shut it off Lol. I've got about 1500 miles on it so far without issues. It burned exactly a quart of oil in the first 500 while the rings were seating and doesn't appear to be burning anything now.
I didn't take the time to read the whole thread cuz I'm exhausted from work, but if I can give you any sensor readings or whatever shoot me a pm. I'll give you my cell number and maybe we can help brainstorm. I've maintained a few of these engines since they were new and I'm pretty familiar with them.
If you have a flange to unbolt the cats after the upstream O2 sensors, try that. The engine should run 3% lean IIRC, but it will verify if the cats are causing it to run poorly (personally I doubt it though).
The Borg Werner EGR that the Oreilleys parts tree provides for my truck works fine if you need to verify a part number. On the l31 I think all it will do is throw a pintle position code if it's faulty though. I think its only a 3 pin plug.
Setting timing requires using a scanner to monitor can offset retard and rotating the dist. to +/-2°. Most ECMs then require you to reset the cam/crank sensor relationship. Mine was too early in '96 apparently and I do not have that feature.
Sorry if I echoed someone else. Like I said I didn't read the thread. Mostly wanted to offer to help you over the phone if you need to verify some readings with a running engine.
I can give you part numbers for good NGK o2 sensors too (up and downstream). I bought Bosch sensors a few years ago and they stopped working within six months. Never again.
Good luck. I glanced at your thread before I bought my crate engine but forced myself not to read it and be optimistic. I was biting my nails the whole time worrying I'd end up in your shoes. When I cranked it over, it fired up so instantly that it started me and I accidentally shut it off Lol. I've got about 1500 miles on it so far without issues. It burned exactly a quart of oil in the first 500 while the rings were seating and doesn't appear to be burning anything now.
Thanks for the input there! I don't have access to a scanner to read the offset value so I took it to the dealership. No clue if they did it it did it right and a generally have ZERO faith in other people working on my junk, which is why I did this myself in the first place.
I'll get it sorted, but I'm out of money to throw at it right now. It's cost me a year of working on other projects and several thousand dollars so far.
I'll get it sorted, but I'm out of money to throw at it right now. It's cost me a year of working on other projects and several thousand dollars so far.
Sold it Friday! Not my problem anymore!
