Wanting to set up my garage to do some fabbing!

[blowedupmotor87]

So, I want to start doing some fabbing, namely front and rear bumpers, sliders, and a bed cage/tire carrier for my truck. I currently have nothing but a Lincoln 216 and a dream, LOL! (of course I also have an assortment of basic hand tools, a floor jack, jackstands, etc) I have taken a couple welding classes but that was quite a while ago so, pretty much starting from scratch. The amount of space I have to work with is two bays of my three car garage. (can temporarily spread out into the third bay but, gotta have everything back into two bays at the end of the day so my wife can park in the garage)

Things I think I'll need:
air compressor and some air tools
chop saw (maybe a DW 872? yeah, a band saw would be better but good Lord, $$$!)
tubing notcher (thinking TN-100)
bender (thinking JD2 model 32 manual, probably just a 2" die and a 1.5" die)
good sturdy welding table
an engine hoist (since my floor joists won't support an overhead hoist)
maybe a plasma cutter? (tough call on a budget though!)

Basically, I have around $6k budget (max!!!) and would rather buy a limited number of good quality things that will last rather than a whole assortment of inferior stuff.

The majority of tube I plan to bend is 2"x.120 wall. (I reckon the sliders will be 2"x.250 wall but, they'll be the only exception and I can get somebody else to bend them) I think 2"x.120 wall in a manual bender should be doable?

What would y'all recommend given the budget and the goal? And the fact that I am a complete amateur! (don't worry, I am not expecting to be welding beautiful parts right off the bat, I plan on making quite a bit if scrap first, practicing!) Thanks!!!

 

[Greg72]

As someone who's been "doing more with less" for many years now (in terms of space) I have a few opinions about what tools are necessities and which ones are far less important...


Good compressor - get a good one with a large tank. Once you start running air tools with any regularity, a small compressor will be super annoying.

Chop Saw / Band saw - not needed. I have a chop saw that I haven't used in years, a band saw would be nice occasionally but a good vertical one costs big $$$

Tubing Notcher - not needed. I have one collecting dust... It doesn't seem like the notches I actually need are simple enough for a notcher to create. Usually I hand form them with am angle grinder and 40-grit flap disc

Bender - whatever you get you will wish you had some kind of either air or hydro assist. Bending 2" DOM isn't easy... Plus having to anchor the bender to the floor wastes space. With assist, you can put the whole thing on wheels and tuck it away in a corner when not in use.

Welding table - yep. I built one with a 30" x 48" slab of flat plate and some square tubing for legs. Cost me a few hundred bucks but I use it constantly. If you can find a surplus one that would be nice too.

Cherry picker - yep. Get a folding one so you can hide it away when not needed.

Plasma cutter - not critical, but nice. I have one but I could accomplish almost all the same things with a cutoff disk and some patience or a vertical bandsaw. For basic rollcage and tube slider stuff it's definitely a waste of money. Once you get into more complex fabrication it might make more sense.


I've been building the "Might As Well"truck in a single bay of a garage for almost 5 years now....I spread out into the extra bay when needed but like you I have to clean it up so the wife can park there again. When you have those constraints it becomes important to pick tools that can be rolled to the edges of the shop and stored efficiently. You don't need a ton of big dollar tools to do good work... Spend the money where it counts and spend time learning your fab skills.

-G

 

[Avery4jc]

You'll find everyone has different preferences with fab tools but I can tell you from my build here's what I used...

Hobart 187 (but you have the welder covered)

A couple Harbor Freight grinders so you can have one with a flap wheel and one with a cut-off wheel on it and not have to switch back and forth. They're cheap but work just fine and when they crap out just chuck it and get a new one. I find the blue/red ones are better than the SUPER cheap orange ones.

I had a chop saw and hated it. I sold it and found a metal band saw off craigslist. After a quick rebuild with some new guide bearings and some clean-up it's been great. You can get away with a cheaper band saw if you take the time to get everything aligned well and BUY A GOOD BLADE.

Same goes for the notcher. My whole cage was made with a harbor freight notcher but just like the band saw I took the time to shim it so it was centered and spent the coin on good bi-metal hole saws for it. It's showing it's age but it made it through a LOT of tube.

I have a Pro-Bender. It's a vertical bender that uses pro-tools dies. Mine is setup with an air over hydro ram and it's awesome. Roll it out, bend some tube and put it away. No bolting it down. Also if you're going to bend a decent amount of tube get bend tech. It's well worth the money and in the long run you'll save money by not wasting tube. That's a whole new topic though but look into it.

Yes on a work/welding table. I built one that's 5' x 3' x 1/2" and it's an invaluable tool for doing fab work.

I agree with greg, go big on the compressor. I picked up a 60 gallon Ingersoll Rand that's been serving me well and doesn't take up too much space.

I'd skip the plasma cutter and the engine hoist until you come across a project where you think you need it. Then get it.
Even so I think you can get away with a small torch setup that you can more than likely find used off craigslist.

Something you didn't mention is a good drill press. I have a huge one and use it all the time. It's nice to be able to clamp tabs and stuff down and plow through with a 1/2" bit like butter.

 

[blazinzuk]

I am gonna echo much of the same. A good solid sturdy work table that weighs about 500 lbs is on my list of stuff to do.

You can do all your notching with a portaband. You can also cut tube with it, you can do many many things with a portaband. I would put it way above a shopsaw, and in your budget you should be able to swing one.

I think 2 good grinders are a must, I am hard on grinders so I usually pick up the higher amp rating dewalts.

Drill press is important. Your gonna need to drill holes in brackets and a drill press makes this so much easier faster better more accurate etc.

Tubing bender do your self a favor and do at least a cheap hydraulic conversion on it. Makes it more portable. though I am weird and like to put multiple bends in multiple planes on one piece of tube. So it really helps me.

Big as you can get air compressor. Not so much for the fab work but for everything, I use my die grinder to clean off steel prior to welding.

Plasma cutter is a luxury. For certain very nice but if you learn to use a grinder with a cut off properly. It can be not a bad way to go.

Tube notcher if your gonna buy one get a good one. Although I have used and still use a HF notcher I have used nicer and like nicer.

Spend money on quality stuff not the quanity. Get the basics, get em nice. Learn how to use them all properly.

You can build pretty much anything with a welder a grinder and drill and a tube bender

 

[Greg72]

I'll add afew more comments to enhance my original post.

4-1/2" angle grinder - get at least two. I have one set up for flap discs, and one with a cutoff wheel. I accomplish almost all of my metal cutting and notching with these two things.

Drillpress - yes! If you can swing it get a good variable speed one that goes down to a few hundred RPM. I have a woodworkers one and even at the slowest pulley combination it still spins too fast for drilling steel. It works, but I burn a lot of bits even with cutting fluid. A solid machinists vice will be a big help in preventing steel "frisbees" around the shop.

Portaband - that might be a good compromise if you don't do a chopsaw or plasma cutter. SWAG makes a small Portaband base that converts it into a bench top vertical bandsaw. Pretty cool...I would still like to get that setup for making small tabs, etc.

Air hose reel, dryer - get an overhead hose reel. I tripped over hoses for years and spent half my time coiling it back up neatly in a pile on the floor. A good quality air dryer will save your tools from rusting

Power cord reel - great to have close to the workbench for the grinders. Keeps you from getting tangled up in extension cords all over the floor.


-G

 

[rdn2blazer]

I'm afraid if I start talking tool, I may never stop typing . I LOOOVE tools. Go with whats already been said. Thats a great start. I have to go now....fast.

 

[runamok151]

I agree w/ what's been said, especially on the # of grinders. I'd have 3: grinding disk, flap wheel and wire brush. But I have to disagree w/ Avery on the HF grinders. I've had miserable luck w/ them. I know you can get them as cheap as $20 and I can buy 3 or 4 of them for what a good grinder costs, but it really sucks to have to stop what you're doing because your cheap tool craps out and you have to take it back to HF before you can finish a project.

I've had a dewalt grinder w/ the grinding disk on it (main grinder) and it's been running strong for years. The 4 HF grinders I've been through were for light duty work (flap disk and brush) and I've yet to have one last a full day. I've since replaced them w/ Dewalts.


Sometimes you really do get what you pay for and you're better off ponying up for the better tool. I've always believed you should buy the best quality you can afford. If you can only afford 1 good grinder, buy that instead of 2-3 cheapos. It only takes a couple seconds to change disks anyway and you won't be throwing money away on broken tools.

 

[TheBeast_88K5]

I can't say anything that hasn't been said, but will add to the Drill Press concern...
Freakin get one!

I wish I had one, almost every other day...

 

[Avery4jc]

I agree w/ what's been said, especially on the # of grinders. I'd have 3: grinding disk, flap wheel and wire brush. But I have to disagree w/ Avery on the HF grinders. I've had miserable luck w/ them. I know you can get them as cheap as $20 and I can buy 3 or 4 of them for what a good grinder costs, but it really sucks to have to stop what you're doing because your cheap tool craps out and you have to take it back to HF before you can finish a project.

I've had a dewalt grinder w/ the grinding disk on it (main grinder) and it's been running strong for years. The 4 HF grinders I've been through were for light duty work (flap disk and brush) and I've yet to have one last a full day. I've since replaced them w/ Dewalts.


Sometimes you really do get what you pay for and you're better off ponying up for the better tool. I've always believed you should buy the best quality you can afford. If you can only afford 1 good grinder, buy that instead of 2-3 cheapos. It only takes a couple seconds to change disks anyway and you won't be throwing money away on broken tools.

They the orange ones? I used to kill those in a day just like you but the blue and red ones seem to last a good long while.

 

[runamok151]

They the orange ones? I used to kill those in a day just like you but the blue and red ones seem to last a good long while.

No, I had two of the blue ones. They both died the first day I used them. Took them back for new one and they died, too. They all spit out the grease at the gear box where it makes the 90* bend and then seized.

 

[BadDog]

Oddly, my experience is very different. I've got 5 of the orange ones with different blades. The Orange/Black are pretty decent. In fact, I've still got them all and all still running, including the very first I bought that basically built my old truggy. The only thing I've done is grease the heads, which came dry for all practical purposes. All the "grease" (to use the term loosely) was up in the corner, NONE on the gears. Anyway, I used the original grinder with 1/4 wheel and a more recent one with cut-off several times this last weekend grinding/fixing some bubba welds on a tractor I just bought. The Orange/Silver are not nearly as good as the Orange/Black, and I've got one of those, but it still works too.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Cool! Thanks for all the responses everybody!
So, thus far, a plasma cutter is off the list (was realistically out of price range anyway, I've just had some times when it sure would be nice to have one!) and a drill press is on the list. (seems a sensible addition, but one I'd not thought of) Any suggestions on model?

I have one grinder, a 4.5" Bosch, it seems to do well, I helped a buddy cut all his IFS mounts of his 4runner in prep for a solid axle swap with it. (plasma cutter sure would have been nice for that!) I may pick up another grinder to have a backup and to not have to switch out discs as often.

I had figured a chop saw might be the way to go since a really nice band saw is not within the budget and I was worried about the quality of a cheap bandsaw? I guess maybe just allocated more $$$ for saw and getting a decent bandsaw would be a better investment though?

I think a engine hoist may be a sooner rather than later thing just so I can have something to hold the bumpers up when taking on and off by myself. Or maybe beer fund for a helper or two may be a better investment? LOL!

Air compressors- I've been looking at some Ingersoll Rand ones, can anybody make a recommendation as to one that's relatively quiet? I live in a very picky subdivision!

Bender- I am now thinking about the JD2 Model 32 hydraulic since I am going to be bending some pretty beefy tube and since one of my buddies pointed out that I don't know just how good my slab in my garage is gonna be for attaching a manual bender to. (build quality on the house is not as high as I would have preferred) I had thought about a vertical bender but, I don't have enough ceiling clearance.

Greg72- I noticed you said a saw wouldn't really be a worthwhile investment, this may seem a dumb question but, how have you been doing your cutting without? Cutoff wheel and then refining the cut with a grinding wheel or flat file, or how? Obviously I know a hacksaw would give an exact cut but, that's WAY too much work. An oxy/acetylene cutter, well I can do nice cuts on flat plate with one but, my cuts on tube with one are ummm... lacking in precision. (VERY lacking, lol!) Am I just missing something obvious somehow?

 

[blazinzuk]

FWIW a chop saw does not cut straight.

Cold cut saw yes, band saw if set up right yes, chop saw no.

I am not talking a full on bandsaw but a porta band.

Chop saws are LOUD.

Porta band set up on the swag off road stuff will cut pretty dang straight.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

FWIW a chop saw does not cut straight.

Cold cut saw yes, band saw if set up right yes, chop saw no.

I am not talking a full on bandsaw but a porta band.

Chop saws are LOUD.

Porta band set up on the swag off road stuff will cut pretty dang straight.

I am going to have to admit ignorance here- what is the difference between a chopsaw and a cold cut saw? Is a cold cut saw lower RPM, different blade, and a cooling system? The basic design looks about the same, so why such different level of accuracy to cuts?

Seems to me that a Porta band would be VERY dependent on the person using it for its accuracy since you actually hold it while it cuts, seems like any stationary saw (cold cut, chop, or a way outta my price range fancy automatic bandsaw that's liquid cooled (I've used one and I loved it but, I but it cost as much as a nice car!)) would inherently be more accurate?

I'm new to saw buying, never looked at any for steel or even for wood before!

 

[BadDog]

I think if I were starting over again on a somewhat realistic/typical/short budget, I might start something like this.

Basics go without saying. For me that includes hand drills up to 1/2". Also includes air, impact, add an air chisel.

V/H band saw. HF 4x6 is that's all you can manage, though one of the slightly larger ones are better all around. Air tools almost have to be IR for me.

Recip saw (aka sawz-all)

At least 3 4.5" angle grinders. 1/4 grinding, cutting, and knotted wire wheel. Choose 4.5 because they have decent balls, and have the most standard disks available everywhere. At least 3 because I often use them in rapid succession and don't like changing wheels all the time.

O/A rig. SO much you can do with that. Cutting, bending, welding, brazing, loosening, shrinking, blowing out fasteners, etc. Requires skill, but great flexible tool.

MIG: 175A or greater. Smaller can be convenient, but you don't want that for your main welder doing real fab. Easier than stick to learn and use, much cheaper and faster/easier than TIG, and you don't do aluminum or stainless in most common home shop fab.

Build yourself a good table. Mine is 4x4 with 1/2" plate top and receiver tubes around for flexible mounting of vises, benders, grinders, etc.

If you can swing it, add in at least a 20T HF press. With your welder you can make bending dies and al lot of other things.

Beyond that, the sky is the limit. Want to do tube work, add JD2/NE5 bender, but your looking at nearly $1k for decent manual setup. Hosfeld knock-off is nice for flat stock for brackets and such. Finger/Box break for sheet work is great, but you can do it with basic hand tools (hammer, dolly, buck, anvil). Cheap bead roller from HF makes flat panels much more doable.

And a good set of files makes for a slow and hard work alternative to having a mill for slots and other fitted type stuff. Add in other inexpensive manual alternatives like coping saws and hand chisels (real chisels, not Craftsman "cold chisels"). Combine chisels (and gloves) with some care and an O/A setup and you can do some cool stuff. That's all I had for YEARS.

And on and on.

In the end I wound up going "all in" with big industrial lathe, full size turret mill, a range of grinders in all sizes and shapes. At some point it becomes more like an addiction than a hobby...

 

[blazinzuk]

I am going to have to admit ignorance here- what is the difference between a chopsaw and a cold cut saw? Is a cold cut saw lower RPM, different blade, and a cooling system? The basic design looks about the same, so why such different level of accuracy to cuts?

Seems to me that a Porta band would be VERY dependent on the person using it for its accuracy since you actually hold it while it cuts, seems like any stationary saw (cold cut, chop, or a way outta my price range fancy automatic bandsaw that's liquid cooled (I've used one and I loved it but, I but it cost as much as a nice car!)) would inherently be more accurate?

I'm new to saw buying, never looked at any for steel or even for wood before!

Portaband by itself is very hard to make a straight cut. But when you are doing tubing you rarely need a straight cut usually its a cope. Coping with a portaband is easy after a little bit.

Chop saws don't make straight cuts ( pretty close to em) because of the blade flex. It can flex a lot more than you think.

So the portaband for me is there because of its ability to cut many many many things quietly, quickly and cheaper than a chop saw ( less blades)

With the swag kit you can expand rapidly the capability of your portaband. This will save you tons of money on cut off wheels.

So yes the cuts aren't that straight with a portaband cause its handheld, but you can get them pretty darn straight with a little practice and on tube you are going to typically have to cope it anyway.

But the ability to move and cut anywhere, how long a good blade lasts, and with the swag table the expansion of ability it comes out winner for me.

 

[BadDog]

I am going to have to admit ignorance here- what is the difference between a chopsaw and a cold cut saw?
<snip>
Seems to me that a Porta band would be VERY dependent on the person using it for its accuracy since you actually hold it while it cuts

You've got it about right on the cold cut saw. Just a completely different mechanism for cutting, better built, more rigid, even cutting forces on precision ground blades. That's opposed to much more flimsy (particularly in the budget alternatives) construction, flexible wheels (by their nature), high heat wheels prone to uneven forces, glazing, and hard spots. Cold cut IMO is overkill for starter setup unless you get a SMOKING deal or have deep pockets.

And portaband is dependent on user for hand held accuracy, but so is a welder and many other things. And for fab, good fit surely helps when welding things up, but it's easily achieved with hand held saws. I did much of mine with a hand grinder for my entire truggy! You learn to use it, brace you hands/arms for stability, settle into a solid comfortable position if possible, mark and follow a line, etc. And it's portable/flexible, something VERY important when starting out. Add a shop made (or bought if you must) base and you have a fixed option too, accurate as much as you decide to make it. Need better fit, or complicated guides/hinge/etc? Remember that torch, the chisels, and the files?

You don't need a lot of complicated equipment to get started. Get the basics, you're always going to need those. If you get really tired of drilling/sawing/filing bracket slots and such, you'll decide you need to upgrade, AND by then you'll know more of what you really want/need. Same thing if you frequently find your bending sheet over a piece of scrap channel with hammer work, and you want a break. Complex parts in sheet? Maybe time to spring for a plasma cutter, and learn a whole new set of skills, plus make some templates/guides, etc. Time for a roll cage, now you're shopping for a tube bender. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Greg72]

Air compressors- I've been looking at some Ingersoll Rand ones, can anybody make a recommendation as to one that's relatively quiet? I live in a very picky subdivision!


Greg72- I noticed you said a saw wouldn't really be a worthwhile investment, this may seem a dumb question but, how have you been doing your cutting without? Cutoff wheel and then refining the cut with a grinding wheel or flat file, or how? Obviously I know a hacksaw would give an exact cut but, that's WAY too much work. An oxy/acetylene cutter, well I can do nice cuts on flat plate with one but, my cuts on tube with one are ummm... lacking in precision. (VERY lacking, lol!) Am I just missing something obvious somehow?

A good upright Quincy or IR will save you space and are pretty quiet, but if you add some rubber isolators to the feet it will help prevent coupling noise to the floor. On a compressor a lot of the noise also comes from the intake side of the machine and they do sell special intake mufflers to cut down on that noise as well.

As for cutting, in your OP you mentioned rollcage, bumper and rockslider projects. None of those need a fancy saw. A 4-1/2" grinder with a good quality cutoff disc will cut the basic shapes you will need, and then with a 36 grit flap wheel you can "dress down" the rough cuts to match the exact curves you need. 1/8" wall tubing can be shaped pretty quickly that way....and from my experience, getting good fitting copes is all about test fitting and reworking the parts many times anyway. That why I don't see to ever use my dusty tubing notcher.

In a pinch, you can cut flat sheet materials with a saber saw and a metal cutting blade. Ultimately, you will learn techniques that work based on the tools you own.... With even a modest tool collection you should be able to do almost everything. Stuff like plasma cutters will increase your production speed for sure, but if you are just building for yourself it's harder to justify spending all that coin on a single tool.


-G

 

[iwaxmyjimmy]

Something I feel is over looked and very valuable for removing brackets or anything of a frame, an air hammer with a chisel bit. Munches rivets for breakfast and after you grind for a bit and can get the air hammer or a BFH you can knock the brackets off in no time. Most the "fan" stuff I've done there were factory brackets to take off and are a PITA to do.

 

[sixb]

I haven't read everything

I would do a torch before a plasma. Also I say buy what you need for the project on hand and over the years you'll end up with a shop full of stuff.