kevin400ex
1/2 ton status
how will this kit handle high speed desert stuff? are there provisions in the axle brackets to add a swaybar? how about room for bypass shocks? do the brackets come fully welded? mig or tig?
CK5
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We are now building and shipping front coilover conversion kits!
- Thread starter Hogback Fabrication
- Start date
As far as driving characteristics at speed, maybe the best way to put this is that I wish our racer would handle as good. One of the key features here is that we put quite a bit of work into making sure the roll steer is minimized so that the axle isn't driving you all over the place on a one wheel bump.
Another key is that the panhard geometry is right, there's basically no bumpsteer from the panhard bar. Overall handling at high speed is good whether the road is smooth or not.
The swaybar is added on in front of the axle with arms on the front of the housing. The entire swaybar system is added on so you won't see the axle mounts on the existing brackets. The bar mounts to the frame right behind the bumper and the swaybar arms extend back from there. I'm pretty sure the one we have used was a 34" long 1.25" dia bar. For offroad use that would be way too stiff but the idea is the same. Keep in mind that adding a swaybar with this suspension geometry is mostly for tuning body roll and corner handling since roll steer is already minimized. On our KOH racer the swaybar is a big help in several ways and one of them is to keep the axle more level to the chassis so it doesn't steer as bad since arm angles aren't ideal.
Shocks for this suspension for high speed use are the same as with any suspension, in general, more is better. One approach would be to use a 3" coilover with a 2.5" bumpstop. I've seen that system eat up some big terrain fast. I can see room for a bypass shock behind the coilover with some custom mounting and some careful attention to clearance on the bumpstop.
Changes I would make for non racing desert use:
1: truss the axle
2: spend time tuning a 2.5" shock with a good bumpstop. We ran KOH the first time with a single coilover and bump and it did pretty good.
3: figure out a way to run a crossmember between the frame end link mounts.
4: consider moving the frame end link mount back on the frame a few inches to make a crossmember easier and to make the arms longer. This will compromise ground clearance in rougher terrain but in the desert it's rarely an issue.
5: maybe add swaybar to match your personal preference.
Plan on racing?
all the above plus consider swapping some of the joints to larger heims, mount a bypass shock, maybe add hydro assist. Also plan on custom engine crossmember work and maybe frame work (if allowed) to maximize bump travel and maybe mount a 16" coilover to gain that travel. At this point you should also talk to us about going to some 4130 for the bracketry and/or beefing up some of the holes to resist the cyclic loads.
In either case tuning is a major key, you will gain more for your time and money tuning a 2.5" shock than you will bolting on anything.
Also in either case, the rest of the vehicle needs serious work to stand up to the use. This means caging the truck thoroughly.
Bracket construction is all MIG. Not sure TIG would gain much with the standard materials and construction.
Another key is that the panhard geometry is right, there's basically no bumpsteer from the panhard bar. Overall handling at high speed is good whether the road is smooth or not.
The swaybar is added on in front of the axle with arms on the front of the housing. The entire swaybar system is added on so you won't see the axle mounts on the existing brackets. The bar mounts to the frame right behind the bumper and the swaybar arms extend back from there. I'm pretty sure the one we have used was a 34" long 1.25" dia bar. For offroad use that would be way too stiff but the idea is the same. Keep in mind that adding a swaybar with this suspension geometry is mostly for tuning body roll and corner handling since roll steer is already minimized. On our KOH racer the swaybar is a big help in several ways and one of them is to keep the axle more level to the chassis so it doesn't steer as bad since arm angles aren't ideal.
Shocks for this suspension for high speed use are the same as with any suspension, in general, more is better. One approach would be to use a 3" coilover with a 2.5" bumpstop. I've seen that system eat up some big terrain fast. I can see room for a bypass shock behind the coilover with some custom mounting and some careful attention to clearance on the bumpstop.
Changes I would make for non racing desert use:
1: truss the axle
2: spend time tuning a 2.5" shock with a good bumpstop. We ran KOH the first time with a single coilover and bump and it did pretty good.
3: figure out a way to run a crossmember between the frame end link mounts.
4: consider moving the frame end link mount back on the frame a few inches to make a crossmember easier and to make the arms longer. This will compromise ground clearance in rougher terrain but in the desert it's rarely an issue.
5: maybe add swaybar to match your personal preference.
Plan on racing?
all the above plus consider swapping some of the joints to larger heims, mount a bypass shock, maybe add hydro assist. Also plan on custom engine crossmember work and maybe frame work (if allowed) to maximize bump travel and maybe mount a 16" coilover to gain that travel. At this point you should also talk to us about going to some 4130 for the bracketry and/or beefing up some of the holes to resist the cyclic loads.
In either case tuning is a major key, you will gain more for your time and money tuning a 2.5" shock than you will bolting on anything.
Also in either case, the rest of the vehicle needs serious work to stand up to the use. This means caging the truck thoroughly.
Bracket construction is all MIG. Not sure TIG would gain much with the standard materials and construction.
Blazinaire
1/2 ton status
crew cab chase truck
I am getting ready to sell my current truck (ram 2500 hd thread here: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286597 ) to replace it with a 87-91 K30 crew cab. This kit is a major reason why I am willing to go "backwards" with my tow rig as I will end up with the simplicity of our beloved square bodies but I am hoping to retain (actually in the case of the K30 I would GAIN) the predictable handling and smooth ride I have grown accustomed to.
I know that most people would question going this route on a tow rig, but the way I see it, controlled handling at high speeds (on road) hauling a 10k lb trailer matters a lot more than on the crawler. It seems to me that with proper spring rates (heavy) there would not be any of the "floppy" feeling that is often associated with c/o link setups. I can't see ANY downsides of converting to 4 link over leaf springs even in this application, are there any?
The K30 will primarily be the tow rig but it will also need to serve as our chase truck when motorcycle riding/racing in the desert so a good amount of controlled travel is a must. My current truck only has 10" travel with custom valved 2.5"s and it does well, but I would want the K30 to perform at least as well in the rough and could still see using 14-16" travel even on the "tow rig." It will only see maybe 5k miles a year with 90% of that hauling a trailer or moving through the desert via dirt. That being said, the truck doesn't need to be very tall so moving the frame mounts back and using longer arms seems like a worth while change for me.
On your website it states *Pictures shown are of a prototype system, actual brackets are slightly different* do you have any pictures of the production brackets (mostly intersested in the frame end of the links) installed? I am assuming that you have omitted the "bolt on" frame plate that goes over the factory upper shackle hanger? Can I just move the bracket that comes with your kit back to the tranny x-member or slightly forward of it and run longer arms without adverse affects on handling?
If I buy shocks from you, will they be valved specifically for my application, or will that be up to me? If not, I would prefer to stick with Fox as they are what I have the most experience with. As far as springs go, will I need to have my truck weighed first, or do you already have known combinations for these trucks?
This is still quite a ways out for me being that I just decided to sell my current truck, so I'll have to wait for it to sell, then find a K30 CC SRW with a BB, then I'll start ordering parts. I'd just like to iron out some of the larger issues before I sell a truck that I know to handle well, just to end up being stuck with a truck that has no hope of having a good ride AND handling.
I am getting ready to sell my current truck (ram 2500 hd thread here: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286597 ) to replace it with a 87-91 K30 crew cab. This kit is a major reason why I am willing to go "backwards" with my tow rig as I will end up with the simplicity of our beloved square bodies but I am hoping to retain (actually in the case of the K30 I would GAIN) the predictable handling and smooth ride I have grown accustomed to.
I know that most people would question going this route on a tow rig, but the way I see it, controlled handling at high speeds (on road) hauling a 10k lb trailer matters a lot more than on the crawler. It seems to me that with proper spring rates (heavy) there would not be any of the "floppy" feeling that is often associated with c/o link setups. I can't see ANY downsides of converting to 4 link over leaf springs even in this application, are there any?
The K30 will primarily be the tow rig but it will also need to serve as our chase truck when motorcycle riding/racing in the desert so a good amount of controlled travel is a must. My current truck only has 10" travel with custom valved 2.5"s and it does well, but I would want the K30 to perform at least as well in the rough and could still see using 14-16" travel even on the "tow rig." It will only see maybe 5k miles a year with 90% of that hauling a trailer or moving through the desert via dirt. That being said, the truck doesn't need to be very tall so moving the frame mounts back and using longer arms seems like a worth while change for me.
On your website it states *Pictures shown are of a prototype system, actual brackets are slightly different* do you have any pictures of the production brackets (mostly intersested in the frame end of the links) installed? I am assuming that you have omitted the "bolt on" frame plate that goes over the factory upper shackle hanger? Can I just move the bracket that comes with your kit back to the tranny x-member or slightly forward of it and run longer arms without adverse affects on handling?
If I buy shocks from you, will they be valved specifically for my application, or will that be up to me? If not, I would prefer to stick with Fox as they are what I have the most experience with. As far as springs go, will I need to have my truck weighed first, or do you already have known combinations for these trucks?
This is still quite a ways out for me being that I just decided to sell my current truck, so I'll have to wait for it to sell, then find a K30 CC SRW with a BB, then I'll start ordering parts. I'd just like to iron out some of the larger issues before I sell a truck that I know to handle well, just to end up being stuck with a truck that has no hope of having a good ride AND handling.
I don't see any reason at all we can't compete well with ride quality and drivability compared to the newer dodge. Our arm geometry is good so it'll drive nice and ride quality is a matter of springs and shocks from there.
I towed a little with my sub on coilovers and it did fine. I had a load leveling hitch and it was just a camp trailer (28') that probably weighed 5K or so but overall it did great and that was with no swaybar at all.
My first inclination was to recommend a 10-12" travel shock but I see your priorities would like to see the 14" and I think that can work fine. The only downside to the resulting lower spring rate is going to be brake dive and that's probably not huge on a 164" wheelbase truck. There is the option of running a triple rate spring system to get a stiffer rate if necessary.
Moving the frame side link mounts back to the T-case x-member would be just fine and is only going to make the arm geometry more stable than it is. It might move things to the point that you could use the higher clearance bracket system and still have really good handling.
I don't see any reason you couldn't use a Fox shock in there, i'm not familiar with their spring seats and eye profiles but none of that is really critical with this system. Kings are good but if you like fox and deal with them regularly we can work with that. Or just convert you to the light blue side...
Spring rates? Ideally you'd weigh the truck so we can hit it closer but swapping springs around isn't hard to do if we miss initially.
I towed a little with my sub on coilovers and it did fine. I had a load leveling hitch and it was just a camp trailer (28') that probably weighed 5K or so but overall it did great and that was with no swaybar at all.
My first inclination was to recommend a 10-12" travel shock but I see your priorities would like to see the 14" and I think that can work fine. The only downside to the resulting lower spring rate is going to be brake dive and that's probably not huge on a 164" wheelbase truck. There is the option of running a triple rate spring system to get a stiffer rate if necessary.
Moving the frame side link mounts back to the T-case x-member would be just fine and is only going to make the arm geometry more stable than it is. It might move things to the point that you could use the higher clearance bracket system and still have really good handling.
I don't see any reason you couldn't use a Fox shock in there, i'm not familiar with their spring seats and eye profiles but none of that is really critical with this system. Kings are good but if you like fox and deal with them regularly we can work with that. Or just convert you to the light blue side...
Spring rates? Ideally you'd weigh the truck so we can hit it closer but swapping springs around isn't hard to do if we miss initially.
rickymac85
Registered Member
Are the kits u sell now going to look like the one on your website where the shock hoops bolt on instead of welding them on? thanks
rickymac85
Registered Member
So each kit he sells is different??
rickymac85
Registered Member
well that sucks. im no fabricator. i was looking for something that would mostly bolt on. i wonder if he could sell me a kit like was in the picture
rickymac85
Registered Member
will do. thanks for the info
this kit looks awesome!!! How many have you guys sold so far? Any customer reviews yet?? this looks awesome.
wellll?
We've sold a bunch of them and nothing but good reviews, we even had one customer with our coilover kit on the UA this year!
Sorry for the slow reply to this, if you're looking for something specific let me know but the first few (other than the handful we've had on our own rigs for years) have been installed since the end of last year.
Sorry for the slow reply to this, if you're looking for something specific let me know but the first few (other than the handful we've had on our own rigs for years) have been installed since the end of last year.
Is their a way to do a coil over system without the need to jack the truck way up? As in a more stock ride height but with coilovers?
