Welding Question - New question

[AZ79K5Project]

I building a winch bumper and trying to weld 1/4" plate. Hobart set-up says to use 0.035 wire. I only have 0.030 and 0.023.

Can 0.030 wire be used? What kind of problems will I have if I do?

 

[Hossbaby50]

You can use either if your welding technique is good. I would use the .030 though if you have both.

Harley

 

[BlazerBud]

Just my 2 cents, but you are trying to mig or flux core 1/4 inch?
Your welder may only have a 20% duty cycle. I would definitely use stick and a machine with 100% duty cycle to weld heavy stuff that is required to take abuse like a winch mount. If you don't have access, find a guy who has one. You CAN in fact get the job done with a little flux core machine, but don't ruin your welder by running it too hard.

 

[AZ79K5Project]

I am using a Hobart 180 mig with CO2/Argon.

How can I tell if I am getting adequate penetration?

 

[Captainfab]

Look at the backside of the weld joint and see if it looks like it got hot on the backside. You can also do your own test....weld a couple of pieces like in the pic and try and break them apart by bending them. Then you can see how much penetration you have before you start on your bumper.

A couple of ways to get better penetration on a butt joint is to 1) leave a little gap, like 3/32" on 1/4" mat'l or 2) grind a 'vee' about 1/8" deep and 1/8" back on each side. And of course welding both side helps too. BTW Those welds look pretty good.

 

[uao85]

yeah I have been told you want the beed to lay uniformly flat with the material your welding for good penetration, as well as discoloration on the backside of both pieces of metal. I use .030 in my baby mig for almost everything, and I dont have a problem with it, works great.

Remington

 

[AZ79K5Project]

I looked at the backside of the weld - no indications of good heat/penetration.

Crapppppppppppppppppppppp!

 

[dremu]

I looked at the backside of the weld - no indications of good heat/penetration.

Crapppppppppppppppppppppp!

Well, one possibility is just to weld both sides, if you can get at them.

Also, you can increase the gap between the pieces -- seems counterintuitive, but it can let you zap further down. Also, I can't tell from the pic, but the surfaces don't look clean, i.e. shiny. Like anything electrical involving high current (think battery terminals), the slightest crap on the surface will cause resistance and limit how much juice goes through ... less current, less burn through (less penetration.)

Point being that if the surfaces aren't clean, hit 'em with a flap disc or a grinder until they're nice and shiny, and the same for your ground clamp. I'm starting to get to the point where I can feel the wire kicking back at me when the ground isn't good or the surface isn't clean.

Anyway, you may have done these already and I don't claim to be remotely any welding expert, just a coupla thoughts.

-- A

 

[AZ79K5Project]

No - they weren't that clean. I was talking to a guy at Phoenix welding supply. I am going to grind the weld and try again with the 0.035.

 

[thezentree]

Well, one possibility is just to weld both sides, if you can get at them.

Also, you can increase the gap between the pieces -- seems counterintuitive, but it can let you zap further down. Also, I can't tell from the pic, but the surfaces don't look clean, i.e. shiny. Like anything electrical involving high current (think battery terminals), the slightest crap on the surface will cause resistance and limit how much juice goes through ... less current, less burn through (less penetration.)

Point being that if the surfaces aren't clean, hit 'em with a flap disc or a grinder until they're nice and shiny, and the same for your ground clamp. I'm starting to get to the point where I can feel the wire kicking back at me when the ground isn't good or the surface isn't clean.

Anyway, you may have done these already and I don't claim to be remotely any welding expert, just a coupla thoughts.

-- A

x2. MIG welds like crap through scale.

 

[nad]

That's an impressive looking weld for flux core. I used that crap to weld patches in my floor and it basically looked like complete crap.

 

[AZ79K5Project]

It's solid wire with gas. I am going to grind it down and use 0.035. I picked it up a couple of days ago. I hope to get better penetration.

Should I increase, decrease wire speed or leave it the same with 0.035?

 

[dremu]

It's solid wire with gas. I am going to grind it down and use 0.035. I picked it up a couple of days ago. I hope to get better penetration.

Should I increase, decrease wire speed or leave it the same with 0.035?

Well, I'd turn the heat up as far as it'll go, obviously. Feed speed I'd set based on feel ... turn it up until it starts to push you back, then dial it down a hair. Again, that's partially based on the cleanliness of the surrounding area, so as we previously discussed, after cleaning the area more you can prolly get more current/penetration going on.

-- A

 

[AZ79K5Project]

I am going to work on it on Saturday. Thanks for the info.

 

[BlazerBud]

I looked at the backside of the weld - no indications of good heat/penetration.

Crapppppppppppppppppppppp!

Your welds are pretty, but if they lack penetration, they won't be good for this application. My original suggestion was that stick welding would suit this better. If you just have to own the equipment that you weld with, then I would suggest getting a cheap Lincoln 225 amp AC ~ $200 or the 225/210 AC/DC ~ $400, I know guys that have welded all kinds of stuff with these.

 

[AZ79K5Project]

I picked up some flap wheels from Phoenix Welding Supply. I was using HF crap ones. I saved money by buying the expensive one. I used one to grind down all the welds and went at them with 0.035 wire. I obtained the heat and penetration. I warped the 1/4" plate.

Started bending up the tubing --- BANG went a bolt on the POS bender.

 

[tRustyK5]

Your welds are pretty, but if they lack penetration, they won't be good for this application. My original suggestion was that stick welding would suit this better. If you just have to own the equipment that you weld with, then I would suggest getting a cheap Lincoln 225 amp AC ~ $200 or the 225/210 AC/DC ~ $400, I know guys that have welded all kinds of stuff with these.

he doesn't need a stick machine for 1/4" plate. He has more than enough machine for the job. If you look at the weld you can see both edges of the weld are fused in nicely, it's not cold at all. The main reason he didn't get the penetration he wanted was lack of a proper prep for the joint. On a butt joint like that it depends mostly on whether or not you can weld both sides for how you're going to prep. Personally I'd have ground a 3/16" x 45 degree prep on one plate leaving a 1/16" 'land' and poured it in hot. With a small MIG machine that probably would have been a two pass weld...one hot root pass plus a cover pass.

Larger wire sizes require less wire speed with the same voltage.

Rene

 

[AZ79K5Project]

New Question - Types of welds

Here's my question. Is there a problem between overlapping the joint on the winch mount instead of a butt joint? Are there any issues in either?

 

[dremu]

Here's my question. Is there a problem between overlapping the joint on the winch mount instead of a butt joint? Are there any issues in either?

View attachment 58700

Well, welding is WEIRD if you're used to, say, woodworking. Overlap like that would be the ONLY way to do it if you were using 2x4's.

However, with welding, the two pieces of metal essentially become one, and so for all intents and purpose are just as strong. It's freaky, but if the welds are good, it works.

Now, in your case, I donno. If I understand your picture, the extra thickness would be good, but I worry about being able to weld appropriately to get good penetration. You'd need to weld along the same edge as your butt joints, plus along the outer edges of the red piece... basically, you'd want to weld the squares formed by the overlap, if that makes sense.

If you were woodworking, you'd glue mating faces of the overlap, right, and that's the one thing you can't do with welding; you can only weld the edges.

If it were me, I'd butt joint it -- as said before, bevel the edges and leave a small gap so as to burn that sh!t good -- and if you want extra thickness, put a piece of square tube or C-channel across the back for reinforcement.

I hope this makes sense, and again, a master welder and fabricator I am not, just a hobbyist, so take what I say with a grain of salt and no offense

-- A

 

[AZ79K5Project]

No offense at all. I appreciate the assistance. I am looking for input from people with more experience than myself. I have built a few small brackets, racks and other things successfully. This is my first attempt at a bumper and winch plate that HAS to be structurally sound.