blazin_blazer
1/2 ton status
if you get a 454 block, you can put the 396/402 crank in it and make it a 427...thats the combo....454 block/396 crank=427
CK5
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Well guys, i need some assistance :) BBC info,PICS ADDED
- Thread starter 4xcrazy
- Start date
Just get the 454 sleeved and be done with it.
As was mentioned, a 402 and 454 built the same way, bigger cubes ALWAYS wins.
Besides, the 454 will make more torque, and if you are talking about decent towing, you need more torque, plain and simple. Imagine you are towing up some steep road with your 402, going 35MPH, wondering what it would have been like to have the power of a 454.
Nothing wrong with a 402, but why go with all the big block hassle to get a displacement that can be had with a commonly available small block? Sell it to some Corvette or Camaro guy, and recoup some of your money.
Sleeving is no "black art", it is becoming more and more common, and even required to rebuild some of the newer engines. (My mistake, aluminum blocks HAVE to have sleeves, from the factory) The technology is good, the cost isn't that much. No downside IMO.
As was mentioned, a 402 and 454 built the same way, bigger cubes ALWAYS wins.
Besides, the 454 will make more torque, and if you are talking about decent towing, you need more torque, plain and simple. Imagine you are towing up some steep road with your 402, going 35MPH, wondering what it would have been like to have the power of a 454.
Nothing wrong with a 402, but why go with all the big block hassle to get a displacement that can be had with a commonly available small block? Sell it to some Corvette or Camaro guy, and recoup some of your money.
Sleeving is no "black art", it is becoming more and more common, and even required to rebuild some of the newer engines. (My mistake, aluminum blocks HAVE to have sleeves, from the factory) The technology is good, the cost isn't that much. No downside IMO.
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4xcrazy
3/4 ton status
Cool stuff here,,,,,I just yanked the motor out of the bed that came with the truck, and yeah, it definately threw the #3 rod into the cylinder wall,,,,,there is about a 2" vertical by 1" horzontal sized hole in the cylinder... the rod is missing, off the crank and all, and the piston is up towards the top of the deck.
Guess the next step is to tear the motor apart and find out just how much damage was caused to the head, (if any) along with the cylinder other than the hole.
I know nothing about re-sleeving a motor, thought it was something only the racers did and whatever,,,,i'll try to get a picture later of this damage to the cylinder wall,
What is entailed in "re-sleeving" a cylinder wall?
and is this primarily for repairing damaged cylinders such as holes and cracks?
also heard from a guy that they can be re-sleeved BIGGER, if i wanted to spend that kind of money i guess
Guess the next step is to tear the motor apart and find out just how much damage was caused to the head, (if any) along with the cylinder other than the hole.
I know nothing about re-sleeving a motor, thought it was something only the racers did and whatever,,,,i'll try to get a picture later of this damage to the cylinder wall,
What is entailed in "re-sleeving" a cylinder wall?
and is this primarily for repairing damaged cylinders such as holes and cracks?
also heard from a guy that they can be re-sleeved BIGGER, if i wanted to spend that kind of money i guess
Some of the machinists can expound, but all aluminum blocks (well, modern anyway) are sleeved.
Sleeving is essentially removing a certain amount of remaining cylinder wall (think large overbore) so that the outer sleeve diameter is close, then it's pressed in place. Once it's in place, it is machined just like any of the other cylinders, bored to match the other diameters, and it's done.
Sleeving is essentially removing a certain amount of remaining cylinder wall (think large overbore) so that the outer sleeve diameter is close, then it's pressed in place. Once it's in place, it is machined just like any of the other cylinders, bored to match the other diameters, and it's done.
pauly383
Daddy383
I call dibs on the 402 if you don't use it . At some point it would make an awesome 70 Chevelle motor 
Then I could get my 454 sent from MI , and use it in the tow rig
Then I could get my 454 sent from MI , and use it in the tow rig
4xcrazy
3/4 ton status
The engine that came with the truck, got it somewhat tore down to see exactly what was up with it... WOW, when thingas internally break,,,that BREAK, and scatter, very interesting.
The heads "look" fine,,,but i'll either have them checked and if good rebuilt,,,or even better just try to pick up a set of decent performance heads...
Not too sure on the block, not sure on this re-sleeving what any, (if there are), limits to the amount of damage before it's too much...
WOW, when thingas internally break,,,that BREAK, and scatter, very interesting.The heads "look" fine,,,but i'll either have them checked and if good rebuilt,,,or even better just try to pick up a set of decent performance heads...
Not too sure on the block, not sure on this re-sleeving what any, (if there are), limits to the amount of damage before it's too much...
Oh yes, got to love detonation. Breaks stuff everytime.
That can be sleeved no problem. As long as the crack or hole in your case isn't at the very top or the very bottom of the bore it can be sleeved. Within a 1/2" or so anyway.
That can be sleeved no problem. As long as the crack or hole in your case isn't at the very top or the very bottom of the bore it can be sleeved. Within a 1/2" or so anyway.
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MaxPF
1/2 ton status
I dunno. 454 blocks aren't exactly scarce. In fact, your local friendly machine shop may have one or a few lying around. I would just get another block and continue on your merry way 
4xcrazy
3/4 ton status
Yeah, i tried this through Craigslist, just buying a block, and ended up with the 402, and a 454 with a cracked cylinder, actually BOUGHT the 402 (unknown it was a 402) and he gave me the 454 with the cracked cylinder telling me it was cracked, and he also threw in the aluminum manifold and a crank.
So more money spent, and i'm still in the same situation i was in before hand....
Maybe just do what ya say and check with the machine shop, and hope they don't want more than my arm.
So more money spent, and i'm still in the same situation i was in before hand....
Maybe just do what ya say and check with the machine shop, and hope they don't want more than my arm.
MaxPF
1/2 ton status
4xcrazy said:Yeah, i tried this through Craigslist, just buying a block, and ended up with the 402, and a 454 with a cracked cylinder, actually BOUGHT the 402 (unknown it was a 402) and he gave me the 454 with the cracked cylinder telling me it was cracked, and he also threw in the aluminum manifold and a crank.
So more money spent, and i'm still in the same situation i was in before hand....
Maybe just do what ya say and check with the machine shop, and hope they don't want more than my arm.
Just curious... is this motor going into your burb?
4xcrazy
3/4 ton status
NOOOOO 
it's going in the CC dually i picked up a month or so ago, going to use it as DD/tow rig
and when i say daily driver, for me, that's mostly just to and from work, hardly go anywhere, just ask Allan or Paul
it's going in the CC dually i picked up a month or so ago, going to use it as DD/tow rig
and when i say daily driver, for me, that's mostly just to and from work, hardly go anywhere, just ask Allan or Paul
mike reeh
1/2 ton status
I agree that if youre going to start from scratch, build a 454 rather than the 402.. otherwise go with a small block and get way more bang for your buck with less cubic inches.
dont sweat the sleeving of the cylinders. its not that big of a deal and in the big picture, its only a small percentage of the $$ spent. Im not sure what you budget is, but you could build a respectable engine if you play your cards right, w/o spending an arm and a leg. just take it slow and research everything. dont let the horsepower numbers mislead you, i would say dont even build it for horsepower, build it for low end torque and the rest will figure itself out.
a stock 8.5:1 or 9:1 compression with hypereutectic pistons (or even cast) will be fine... a mild cam, intake, and a nice free flowing exhaust and a nicely tuned qjet and tuned ignition timing will be one hell of a beast. it doesnt take much to build a real strong motor, its getting everything to work together. been a while since Ive run the numbers on bbc heads so I dont remember what to look for or avoid but a little research should yield a lot of information. you might look into some aftermarket heads. thats where Id spend my $$ if it were me.. iron GM truck heads arent going to do all that much, especially after 4-5K rpm they will run out of breath. it might sound like im contradicting myself but having a motor that grunts at 1500, and screams at 5500 isnt unreasonable and thats my one complain about big cubic inch motors esp. with the longer stroke. they tend to choke when you rev em. well im starting to ramble but good luck and keep us posted.. maybe ask some machine shops if theyre interested in a block swap, for that 402..
one other thing, beware of tall deck big block engines, if youre buying any more blocks...
mike
dont sweat the sleeving of the cylinders. its not that big of a deal and in the big picture, its only a small percentage of the $$ spent. Im not sure what you budget is, but you could build a respectable engine if you play your cards right, w/o spending an arm and a leg. just take it slow and research everything. dont let the horsepower numbers mislead you, i would say dont even build it for horsepower, build it for low end torque and the rest will figure itself out.
a stock 8.5:1 or 9:1 compression with hypereutectic pistons (or even cast) will be fine... a mild cam, intake, and a nice free flowing exhaust and a nicely tuned qjet and tuned ignition timing will be one hell of a beast. it doesnt take much to build a real strong motor, its getting everything to work together. been a while since Ive run the numbers on bbc heads so I dont remember what to look for or avoid but a little research should yield a lot of information. you might look into some aftermarket heads. thats where Id spend my $$ if it were me.. iron GM truck heads arent going to do all that much, especially after 4-5K rpm they will run out of breath. it might sound like im contradicting myself but having a motor that grunts at 1500, and screams at 5500 isnt unreasonable and thats my one complain about big cubic inch motors esp. with the longer stroke. they tend to choke when you rev em. well im starting to ramble but good luck and keep us posted.. maybe ask some machine shops if theyre interested in a block swap, for that 402..
one other thing, beware of tall deck big block engines, if youre buying any more blocks...
mike
I have a feeling a bare 454 block is still going to set you back more than a sleeve is. Divide your purchase price between the two blocks, add $125 for a sleeve, what does that equal for the 454? Sell the 402 for the other half (or more, if it's worth it) and you may come out ahead.
There IS no benefit to a smaller motor if you tow, period. Otherwise, people would be perfectly happy towing 10,000# trailers behind 350's. I dunno, maybe that works if the ground is flat.
You said it yourself. It's for a reliable towrig, mileage is inconsequential. A smaller engine will work harder to get even close to the same performance, and if economy doesn't matter, it's a slam dunk.
Article on sleeving:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0603em_block_sleeving/
There IS no benefit to a smaller motor if you tow, period. Otherwise, people would be perfectly happy towing 10,000# trailers behind 350's. I dunno, maybe that works if the ground is flat.
You said it yourself. It's for a reliable towrig, mileage is inconsequential. A smaller engine will work harder to get even close to the same performance, and if economy doesn't matter, it's a slam dunk.
Article on sleeving:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0603em_block_sleeving/
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