What crate engine do you like?

[SLO C5]

Now that's some funny sh*t. Where have you EVER seen a SBC that got 30 mpg?

OK, I know it's not in the same application, but LSX motors in late model Corvettes and F-bodies getting 30mpg cruising in 6th gear @ 65-70 mph is well documented.

 

[original balzer]

Balzer must get one heck of a discount on parts and labor. Buy from him!!!The fuel management alone on a twin turbo will run you over $3k. 650hp is pretty bad for a twin turbo set up. It should be closer to 1100-1400 hp depending on the bottom end. Most of my buddies that run twin turbo on the street are closer to 2000hp and 2500 in race tune.

Now that realy depends on if your building it for a dependable daily driven vehicle or an all out drag race engine. Been over all the arguments. Just think of it this way, what would the HP & TQ numbers be on a 2.5l subaru flat 4 WITHOUT the turbo? Also all the parts and prices I got off the internet. The only price variable would be machine work. It never fails someone hears "TWIN TURBO" and start day dreaming of 1000+hp and all out race engines. Think alont the lines of a factory built TT 350. Meaning it would be built to last a long time and be reliable and dependable around 5-8lbs of boost, AND the ability to turn it up some. If a 2.5l subaru makes close to 300hp STOCK why would it be hard to make 650hp from an engine twice the size?

Now to answer a few questions b4 they get asked.
Why not a bigger single turbo? A: 2 smaller turbos will have less lag than 1 big turbo. Therefore better for a daily driven truck.

Why not more boost and fuel and more power? A: Read reliable and dependable.

Fuel managment? A: there are superchargers that BOLT ON to stock engines
Will the bottom end hold up? A: read above
What subaru makes close to 300hp stock? A: 2007 Impreza 2.5l WRX 293hp, 290ftlbs. look it up on a new one.

Why am I useing a subaru as comparison? A: its the only stock turbo car I know anything about.

As far as prices and building your own engine? Ok lets say your rebuild a stock 350 to stock specs. Assume your block is perfectly fine for a rebuild (it happens) All you need to do is ream the ridge hand powered ridge reamer is about $60 OR can be rented. The price on a factory rebuild kit for a SBC350 OH ABOUT $150 without pistons. You can rebuild the same engine as that 290HP crate engine for UNDER $1000 easy if conditions are right. If you look you can find deals on ANYTHING.

Now IF I am wrong proove it to me with more than your oppinion. Do your homework, and you will see Im right.

Balzer

 

[JL 87K5]

very true. but those motors have no cam upgrades or head upgrades. gas mileage on a stock LS1 out of a camaro was 19 city 28 highway. i think the vette got a little more than that.

 

[original balzer]

Heres the parts and prices I found about a month ago. All from reputable companys and NO E-bay.

pistons turbo/blower 8.5:1 $504 each
cam shaft turbo $150
gaskets $45
bearings cam clevite 77 $20
bearings main/rod $60
balancer scat powerforce $52
edelbrock E-tec 200 heads $1100
edelbrock gear timing $160
head stud kit $160
main bolt kit $68
long block total $2319
TURBOS t3/t4e-50 X2 $1489
ram jet intake & ecm harness $2100
total=$5908
Now add some for plumbing, programer ect. still under $7000
Lots of goodies that are not required.

Balzer

 

[redneckdude]

e

very true. but those motors have no cam upgrades or head upgrades. gas mileage on a stock LS1 out of a camaro was 19 city 28 highway. i think the vette got a little more than that.

3rd and 4th gen small blocks i could see. First and 2nd gens, not so much. Theres fullsize 4x4s getting 22+ mpg on the highway with a tune 4.8 or 5.3...and ive heard of regular cab 6.0s tuned correctly getting about 25 mpg, but thats a real rare case. Could it happen?? yes...but im doubtful on a first or 2nd gen.

 

[89yimmiJ]

Balzer- I agree, anything is possible. I do think you can build a 600hp motor for $7k as I have done it with a naturally aspirated and carbed motor. Most stock motors come with cast pistons, or some type of Hypereutectic piston which can't hold up to very much boost to very long as the ring lands start breaking under pressure and any type of detonation kills them. I have run my stock '89 motor with a s-trim and made just over 290 hp. More modern vehicles such as the vette and subaru obviously can make more but only because the manufacturers invested millions into R&D. They have advanced fuel systems that can be manipulated to a point. Converting our old 50's technology sbc to that is not cheap. Accell DFI and Motec are both over $3k. You can make 600hp but it will have to be high compression and race gas witha carb and not reliable nor over 10 mpg, or you can go 600 reliably but it will cost. For a K5, I don't recommend the former. Reasonably cheap is the newer vortec heads on a tbi motor with a small 5psi centrifugal. Should be good for 350+ hp with overall dependability.

 

[uao85]

Yeah but are you a machinist by trade? with alot of available hours on borrowed equipment to do the work yourself? And I agree that the ramjet programming probably wouldnt be compatable with all of the tuning parameters and programming necessary to handle a turbo motor. Heck even the ls1 crowd has to step up to accel or fast once they get into entry level single turbo setups, not to mention twin turbos. Its impossible to try to compare apples to oranges, the lsx motors are LEAGUES beyond the traditional sbc motors in technology and design.

I almost forgot about an engine my neighbor is building for his 71 camaro...totally streetable 421 sbc. high 10s with lo-pro tires in the 1/4, 25 mpg @ 65mph on the freeway with help from a decked out 700r4. He just sent in his motor to have it "freshened up", he basically refined all the machining done prior, he put it together the first time with little attention paid to machining the block to handle the stress of 650 rwhp, and almost cost him a motor. If you dont have top notch machining done to the block now, you will be having it done on the next block you have to buy because it wont last long. Long story short, he spent almost $3k for machining, and gaskets/rings.
Remington

Heres the parts and prices I found about a month ago. All from reputable companys and NO E-bay.

pistons turbo/blower 8.5:1 $504 each
cam shaft turbo $150
gaskets $45
bearings cam clevite 77 $20
bearings main/rod $60
balancer scat powerforce $52
edelbrock E-tec 200 heads $1100
edelbrock gear timing $160
head stud kit $160
main bolt kit $68
long block total $2319
TURBOS t3/t4e-50 X2 $1489
ram jet intake & ecm harness $2100
total=$5908
Now add some for plumbing, programer ect. still under $7000
Lots of goodies that are not required.

Balzer

 

[JL 87K5]

e
3rd and 4th gen small blocks i could see. First and 2nd gens, not so much. Theres fullsize 4x4s getting 22+ mpg on the highway with a tune 4.8 or 5.3...and ive heard of regular cab 6.0s tuned correctly getting about 25 mpg, but thats a real rare case. Could it happen?? yes...but im doubtful on a first or 2nd gen.

good call, i forgot about those. my uncle has a 4.8 silverado and he can get up to 25 on the street. and with a tune/intake/exhaust i know a guy who is gettin 25 average with on a 6.0. good call man

 

[original balzer]

EDIT: I inadvertantly typed each next to the piston price Thats for all 8 pistons sorry

Balzer

 

[jonrpick]

Now that realy depends on if your building it for a dependable daily driven vehicle or an all out drag race engine. Been over all the arguments. Just think of it this way, what would the HP & TQ numbers be on a 2.5l subaru flat 4 WITHOUT the turbo? Also all the parts and prices I got off the internet. The only price variable would be machine work. It never fails someone hears "TWIN TURBO" and start day dreaming of 1000+hp and all out race engines. Think alont the lines of a factory built TT 350. Meaning it would be built to last a long time and be reliable and dependable around 5-8lbs of boost, AND the ability to turn it up some. If a 2.5l subaru makes close to 300hp STOCK why would it be hard to make 650hp from an engine twice the size?

Now to answer a few questions b4 they get asked.
Why not a bigger single turbo? A: 2 smaller turbos will have less lag than 1 big turbo. Therefore better for a daily driven truck.

Why not more boost and fuel and more power? A: Read reliable and dependable.

Fuel managment? A: there are superchargers that BOLT ON to stock engines
Will the bottom end hold up? A: read above
What subaru makes close to 300hp stock? A: 2007 Impreza 2.5l WRX 293hp, 290ftlbs. look it up on a new one.

Why am I useing a subaru as comparison? A: its the only stock turbo car I know anything about.

As far as prices and building your own engine? Ok lets say your rebuild a stock 350 to stock specs. Assume your block is perfectly fine for a rebuild (it happens) All you need to do is ream the ridge hand powered ridge reamer is about $60 OR can be rented. The price on a factory rebuild kit for a SBC350 OH ABOUT $150 without pistons. You can rebuild the same engine as that 290HP crate engine for UNDER $1000 easy if conditions are right. If you look you can find deals on ANYTHING.

Now IF I am wrong proove it to me with more than your oppinion. Do your homework, and you will see Im right.

Balzer

A good friend of mine has that badass Subaru with the intercooled, turbo'd flat 4. Even when he's gentle he doesn't get 30mph out of THAT.

A Vette in 6th gear on a fairly flat road...I can see it getting close, but you better drive like you're 80.

 

[Big Blzn]

We Really need the Experts advise on this topic: Where's Howdiy???? Or whatever the fock his username is.

 

[original balzer]

Sorry we got off topic on your thread mang. It isnt about weather or not my twin turbo 350 can be done or not. My whole point is crate engines are NOT cheaper than building your own. But it requires your labor, takes longer, and may not be as convient.

Balzer

 

[SLO C5]

very true. but those motors have no cam upgrades or head upgrades. gas mileage on a stock LS1 out of a camaro was 19 city 28 highway. i think the vette got a little more than that.

That's what it's rated at, the ratings are a range, not reality.

Before I added ridiculous 19x13 with 345/30s(heavy rubber, wheels are forged) to my C5 I could get 30 all day long with the cruise at 65-70 in 6th gear(1500-1600rpms). And if I wanted to do an agressive 450rwhp head/cam package the mileage on a highway cruise wouldn't change much. It's all in the tune. But that's stuff is $$$$$, which is why I'm here trying to buy an ol' durty burb

 

[JL 87K5]

its all good balzer

slo c5
yeah, i have an old 67 C10 longbed with a mild 350 i was gonna stroke to a 383 and do a 76 or 88mm single/intercooler and what not. but that is money and not as 'driveable', more track only the way i would have done it. so im stickin with my k5. anyway... anyone else got some good ideas for engine/tranny combos

 

[k20]

Ramjet 350! $7000! The motor that I wanted but NCDuMbV won't pass on inspections so, I just bought a replacement standard 210 hp, 300 lb/ft. But, I REALLY wanted the Ramjet 350!

If only you had talked to me before you bought that motor I coulda got it through inspections, I mean heck, look what I have in mine lol.

 

[original balzer]

Now a good combination of parts could get you a nicer engine than a performance crate engine. Take the 250hp long block for $1300 swap in a good cam that fits your needs $150-$200 and drop on the ramjet FI system $2100 youd be ready to go. $3600 from $7000 gives you $3400 to build it your way.

NOTE: truck engines and car engines should be built differntly to match the application. Most crate engines you find will be built with a car in mind, and may not be as well suited in a heavy truck with big tires. Do some reasearch and get the best bang for the buck.

Balzer

 

[fireplug]

I've been researching and 'shopping' for about a year.

Over and over again I have knowledgeable motor builders, racers, hobbiests telling me the same thing. You can't build a motor for less then a crate.

Average guy, average worn motor, looking for a new mill it seems to be the way.

Connections, machining skill, or even advanced mechanical skill can change the balance pretty quick I'd think.

 

[bowtiepower00]

The bottom dollar Goodwrench crate appears to be a solid deal. You can also get a reman'd GM 454 longblock for under $3K, according to my (somewhat dated) SDPC catalog.

If it's a wheeler/ weekend warrior/ whatever, I'd do the bargain SBC crate, or build a mild SBC.

If it's a driver, I'd look long and hard for a slightly used 5.3 or 6.0/ OD trans combo. You should be able to get a complete setup with wiring/ computer/ etc., for under $5K. Significantly less if you're lucky.

There's always the TBI or TPI swap, too.

The GM engines are drop in and go, reliable (in most cases) and are probably the best bet for most people. But, IF you know how to build an engine, AND have a decent machine shop nearby, you can build a better performing engine for the same money. However, if you mess up and the engine grenades after a year or two, any savings goes out the window.

 

[shawns 92 Burb]

i'm thinking of swaping my 350 for the GM HT383 (Summit $4500) when it is time. i'll have the cam changed for better TQ, off idle - 4500 rpms. if i could afford the HT502 Ram Jet (Summit $5700) . that would be my choice. i also thought about building a 383 (i have 2 sbc in my garage), but i want the warm and fuzzy of the warranty. go with what you can afford. just my 2 cents.