I would recommend the Miller 211 hands down. I bought mine in December from cyberweld.com and have been extremely happy with it. It does everything I have wanted to to do and does produce a nice smooth arc. I know it is a bit more than the Hobart version, I just don't know exactly how the two compare on features and warranty.
CK5
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WHAT IS A GOOD WELDER TO BUY?
- Thread starter MEANSTREAK K30
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YOu run strait argon? Most run a mix, with 70%CO2+argon. I MIG weld all the time outside, it can be breezy and I don't loose my gas, I just turn my regulator up a bit if it is breezy.
How heavy are you talking, I weld 5/8" plate together on occasion with my bigger MIGs. I pretty much just use my stick welders for field repair and hard facing these days.
Just end it all buy one with the new esab rebel!!!!
MEANSTREAK K30
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OK ,so in my original post I also said that I don't want to buy a really expensive machine if I don't have to. Here lately the way my finances are going, I wonder if I will even be able to scrape up $800.00, so can I ask you guys, what the least expensive welder I can buy to weld up to 3/16 in. steel?....I know I can preheat the steel and use a little smaller welder than normal.....so what do you guys think?
If you are only doing 3/16" plate, go rent a Honda gen/welder, look for used, or if you know someone that has a welder, use theirs and buy beer
I got the Hobart 210MVP which basically is the guts of a Miller 211 (manufacturing partners from what I've read) for about $400-$500 less (at the time I bought it). My friend has the same welder and while I'm no fabrication expert, it's been a great welder and great burn/control on the thick stuff too. I borrow his spool gun when I need to work with aluminum (nice to have the same welder and access to spare parts in a pinch.)
Good luck on your search, the next step up after the hobart/miller level here is pretty good jump in $$.
Then go used. Don't compromise and buy a crappy welder. Those little 120v machines suck, unless you are just doing body work and welding sheet metal. They don't have enough power for any real work. You should be able to find a good used 220v mig on craigslist or an industrial supply store that retails used equipment.
You absolutely CAN weld heavier stuff with a smaller 110v machine, it just takes practice. 1/4 thick is very doable. The Sears units work OK for the money, but I'd stay away from they really cheap ones like from harbor freight.
Lincoln has a variety of 110's in the 3, $400 range.... I 'd go that way probably for a 110, even tho I did have one cr@p out on me... you can do 1/4, but it requires some strategic beveling, etc... 110's will do 3/16 easy enough... if you run flux core (no gas) it'll burn a bit deeper, albeit fuglier...
I think hobart's bottom of the line 220 machine is in the 600 range... it used to be the handler 187, but they've changed the model # now.. but if you could step up to that, a 220 machine is noticeably better than 110.. not only in thickness, but better duty cycles... I spent an extra couple hundy for my miller 180 cuz I wanted infinite voltage adjustment... I would have went for the 211, but was looking to keep it under a grand..
I think hobart's bottom of the line 220 machine is in the 600 range... it used to be the handler 187, but they've changed the model # now.. but if you could step up to that, a 220 machine is noticeably better than 110.. not only in thickness, but better duty cycles... I spent an extra couple hundy for my miller 180 cuz I wanted infinite voltage adjustment... I would have went for the 211, but was looking to keep it under a grand..
MEANSTREAK K30
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Is there anything I should look for in a used welder that would tell me not to buy it? What should I check for?
1/4" is a stretch. It's extremely slow, duty cycle sucks... I have a little Miller 110v mig that I bought for a sheet metal project a long time ago. After I was done with that, tried it on some heavier material a couple of times, and don't think I've turned it on again in 5 years...
Going from a 110v machine to a 220v machine is like getting around on a bicycle and then getting a car.
The first thing I would make sure the seller can show you that it works by actually welding something with it. I would also inspect the roller feed and feed tension adjuster. If it looks worn, then the machine as a lot of hours on it. Main thing is that it's not an antique, it looks fairly clean, and the seller can show you it functioning fine. If you can, buy the bottle from the seller too, if it's available. Bottles are surprisingly expensive.
If you run across one of these:
Don't be afraid to buy it. They are big and bulky, but they are good old reliable machines. I have an Idealarc SP200 set up in my fab shop as a stationary welder, since it's kinda heavy and bulky. In my big shop I keep my Ironman 250 in there since it's much smaller and easier to move around when building something big like a trailer.
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I agree, 1/4 inch is a stretch but it can be done without much trouble at all. The company I work for has yet to pony up for a decent welder. The heavier repairs used to get farmed out but not anymore since we figured out what we can actually get done with the little Sears unit. We make the repairs and it simply holds up. We actually have done a lot of welding 3/8 together too. But yeah, a better welder would make things a lot easier and more idiot-proof.
MEANSTREAK K30
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Thanks for the replies ,sir!The first thing I would make sure the seller can show you that it works by actually welding something with it. I would also inspect the roller feed and feed tension adjuster. If it looks worn, then the machine as a lot of hours on it. Main thing is that it's not an antique, it looks fairly clean, and the seller can show you it functioning fine. If you can, buy the bottle from the seller too, if it's available. Bottles are surprisingly expensive.
If you run across one of these:
Don't be afraid to buy it. They are big and bulky, but they are good old reliable machines. I have an Idealarc SP200 set up in my fab shop as a stationary welder, since it's kinda heavy and bulky. In my big shop I keep my Ironman 250 in there since it's much smaller and easier to move around when building something big like a trailer.
For a budget, I'd definitely look to buy used and get a little better machine.
beags86
Eastbound and Down
Preheat is not used to produce bigger welds. Preheat is used to slow the cooling rate to avoid hydrogen cracks.
MEANSTREAK K30
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I read somewhere on the web that preheating is used to enable the welding of thicker material than what would normally be welded with , say a 110 . Something to do with the actual penetration . I understand that you can't go by what you hear on some of these forums , which is why I ask questions on here,as there seems to be a lot more straight shooters that can explain procedures and such.So, you are saying that the only reason to preheat the metal is to avoid hydrogen cracks, and that it does nothing to help with the penetration of the weld ?
beags86
Eastbound and Down
Correct. Just a very very common misconception.
Amps are what controls penetration.
Sure you can cheat it some, and it helps. But that's not really the true function of preheat.
And really the voltage input that the welder runs off of doesn't much matter... Need to look at the amp and voltage output.
Amps are what controls penetration.
Sure you can cheat it some, and it helps. But that's not really the true function of preheat.
And really the voltage input that the welder runs off of doesn't much matter... Need to look at the amp and voltage output.
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I'm with all the other guys that recommend the miller 211, but I understand the $$$ situation. So if Hobart has a welder with the same options you can't go wrong with it. As was mentioned... it's all the same between the two anyway and any parts/consumables needed can be found easily with a miller or Hobart label. I had a Hobart handler 135 IIRC which was a small 230v machine and I ran a lot of wire through it without any problems but when I upgraded to a slightly bigger machine (miller 211) it definitely made a noticeable difference in weld quality. So my opinion is find hobarts version of the 211. Even if you have to put off buying one for a little longer it will be worth it in the long run.
OK here are more of my thoughts.
If your gonna be using this in ANY kind of production type. Repairing equipment doing long beads 110 does suck big time.
For a backyard off road builder not super concerned with speed a 110 will be fine. I have welded 1/4" for a guy with his 110 welder cause most of the ( first year) never welded before students gave him alot of crap. Did several different types of joints. After cutting em destructive testing and all the other crap they could think of not one weld failed. Plus the weld inspector said on any job site they would pass inspection
In off road building I have only hit my duty cycle 3 times with my 220 with my buddies 110 Lincoln we have hit it several times in just building his rig. But big whoop he had 110 available. Could not wire in 220 ( rental) and couldn't reasonably afford a 220 welder.
So if you end up buying a 110 welder you simply have to be better weldor. 220is certainly more forgiving cause it has more power.
As far as backyard type of stuff goes a 110 will be just fine
If your gonna be using this in ANY kind of production type. Repairing equipment doing long beads 110 does suck big time.
For a backyard off road builder not super concerned with speed a 110 will be fine. I have welded 1/4" for a guy with his 110 welder cause most of the ( first year) never welded before students gave him alot of crap. Did several different types of joints. After cutting em destructive testing and all the other crap they could think of not one weld failed. Plus the weld inspector said on any job site they would pass inspection
In off road building I have only hit my duty cycle 3 times with my 220 with my buddies 110 Lincoln we have hit it several times in just building his rig. But big whoop he had 110 available. Could not wire in 220 ( rental) and couldn't reasonably afford a 220 welder.
So if you end up buying a 110 welder you simply have to be better weldor. 220is certainly more forgiving cause it has more power.
As far as backyard type of stuff goes a 110 will be just fine
