What is the heavy duty emissions? Is this the california emissions?
What were two emissions for chev trucks and k5's... heavy duty and ??
What were two emissions for chev trucks and k5's... heavy duty and ??
CK5
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What is the heavy duty emissions?
- Thread starter wazzabie
- Start date
Heavy duty emissions pretty much means it has the least amount of emissions equipment on it possible.
4 I can think of right off the top of my head are Federal, California, Heavy duty, and High Altitude. No idea if things like "High Altitude CA", or "HD CA" existed though.
4 I can think of right off the top of my head are Federal, California, Heavy duty, and High Altitude. No idea if things like "High Altitude CA", or "HD CA" existed though.
Great info. How is Federal and California different?
sandawgk5
3/4 ton status
Heavy duty emissions were only on 3/4 ton and higher trucks. I am not sure of any of the differences. It kinda goes along with how trucks with gvrw of 9000# or higher are not required to perform epa fuel mileage tests. I guess they figure that there are fewer of them on the road compared to regular trucks and cars that the increase in emissions output is negligable.
Ira
Ira
I just went to look at my RPO sheet. It shows Standard Emission System option NA2. In some of the OEM documents that came with the k5 it shows the maintance schedule for light duty trucks it reads, "
78 Chev light duty truck series 10 to 30 with Heavy Duty Emissions System." So the heavy duty emissions can not be just for 3/4 tons.
This k5 has the cold climate package. Maybe that ads the Heavy Duty Emisions.
78 Chev light duty truck series 10 to 30 with Heavy Duty Emissions System." So the heavy duty emissions can not be just for 3/4 tons.
This k5 has the cold climate package. Maybe that ads the Heavy Duty Emisions.
sandawgk5
3/4 ton status
uh well you learn something new everyday.
Ira
Ira
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wazzabie said:
ya my 75 came with the "heavy Duty Emmisions" It has the 4bolt main big push rod 350. It depends on the year wheather you can have Heavy duty emmisions. And is all a game to get away from adding emmisions equipment. for instance, in 74 GVWR for a Blazer was 6200lbs. In 75 the govt. Changed the emmisions laws to require cats on anything under 6300lbs. so what did Chevy do? Added a leaf to the rear spring packs, upped the GVWR to 6300 and got away with not putting a cat on my truck, (THANKS GM). And by making my truck a "Heavy duty" it only required a smog pump and pcv. NO egr, no cat. So its game the OEMs play.
Good info RaisedK5. Was this your 75 k5? I'm still not sure if I have Heavy Duty Emmisions on my 78 k5. What came with Heavy Duty Emmisions or what did not come with it?
How can I tell if I have the cat? What is the egr? I know that my k5 has no smog pump.
How can I tell if I have the cat? What is the egr? I know that my k5 has no smog pump.
R72K5
Banned
vin code M is heavy duty 350, they had no EGR but had cat and smog pump
its basically minus Electronic Q jet and and EGR
its basically minus Electronic Q jet and and EGR
sled_dog
1 ton status
R72K5 said:
What years are you refering to? My 89 V2500 Burb had EGR, but no Smog Pump. Same for my dad's 1989 K2500(IFS) Pickup. But obviouslly you are talking older seeing as you said "Electronic QJet". My question is though, Electronic QJets weren't used until, what 1986? So what years are you refering to?
Be interesting to see exactly when CCC made it to trucks. Started in '80 for certain cars, '81 in all cars.
My '85-88 parts manual lists the CCC Q-jet as '85 too, but that's the earliest I have "proof" of. (also lists a 1988 Q-jet for certain apps interestingly enough.
My '85-88 parts manual lists the CCC Q-jet as '85 too, but that's the earliest I have "proof" of. (also lists a 1988 Q-jet for certain apps interestingly enough.
sled_dog
1 ton status
I had a 1984 K5 which was a standard mechanical/vaccum QJet, I had an 86... but I didn't even take note of what it had, just ripped the motor out and junked it...
CCC SHOULD be a CA only thing for the trucks. Trucks migrate of course, but CA was apparently the only place requiring better emissions before TBI came about.
Emissions in the 80's, espcially for CA is a joke. They go for very strict "emissions", at the cost of, you guessed it, burning more fuel.
All the emissions crap in my '86 is designed to reduce emissions at cold operating temps, about 1% of my driving, and about 4-8% of most drivers. The rest of time these systems are operating, and dragging the motor causing increased fuel burning. It' s a politcal game. Some systems work well, others , that include nasty vacuum solenoids and thermal vacuum switches, and the dreaded dragging AIR pump is a complete joke. 10 years ahead, I'd say 10 years behind. How ' bout those CA gun laws? Why does CA still have the highest SMOG areas in the country?
All the emissions crap in my '86 is designed to reduce emissions at cold operating temps, about 1% of my driving, and about 4-8% of most drivers. The rest of time these systems are operating, and dragging the motor causing increased fuel burning. It' s a politcal game. Some systems work well, others , that include nasty vacuum solenoids and thermal vacuum switches, and the dreaded dragging AIR pump is a complete joke. 10 years ahead, I'd say 10 years behind. How ' bout those CA gun laws? Why does CA still have the highest SMOG areas in the country?
R72K5
Banned
dyeager535 said:
false
CCC= ESC and EST
the ECM harness runs throguh the firewall right near the HEI cap just to the pass side of it and under the dahs it runs towards the drivers side of the cab and to the silver aluminum narrow controller box that is mounted standing up position right next to the gas pedal assembly, look and see on any 80-up 1/2 ton gas engine truck under about 6200lb GVRW(door sticker)
its in 48 state/canada
anything under a certain gross vehicle weight got ESC or EST
period
including all the cars and most 1/2 tons 80-up
the weight rating was about 6200, anything under that got at least the EST/ESC system
if the vehicle is under that much weight rating and doesnt have the system in it then someone removed it
period
look at the emissions label, it will list the systems it had originally
these trucks are old most stuff has been ripped out of them and most have had an engine swap by now
some ppl assume its original though and are bent on believing such, in RE of their vehicle
heavy duty emissions was emissions system for heavy duty engines, such as vin code M 350 engine in the 3/4 and 1 tons and any heavier than 6200lb 1/2 tons that there MAy have been(unlikely after 1979)
heavy duty emissions equipped trucks got the TCS system with the relay box dealmounted on the valve cover, and sometimes they got AIR, but no EGR and no computer controlled timing or carb
restrictions and rules concerning gross vehicle ratings and emissions changed ALOT at the end of the 79 model year
80-up is a whole new game
believe what i say or dont, i dont really care, i know what they did and what there was, ive done alot of research on this, alot of books, alot of emissions label reading, etc
emissions systems that vehicles got was mostly and virtually totally related ot the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle and also if its 48 state/canada or if its Cali
those are the two groups
hope that helps some
good luck
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Actually thats a fair amount of false info.
Haven't we beaten this up in the past? I thought it was pretty clear, but you seem to be unable to grasp the fact that ESC was a standalone *truck* system that was Federal, while CCC was *truck* CA only. (hint here: when talking trucks, think of the badging on the back of certain 80's trucks) You apparently can't grasp the difference between a CCC carb vs. one that has an electrically controlled secondary accelerator pump, as I recall that coming up too in the past. You really need to understand these before posting. I'm not posting this out of anger, but I'm disappointed that a post that is a year old is drug up, and apparently solely to propagate bad information. Because what you posted is not even close to correct. I can probably also go back to half a dozen posts where I've already corrected you on EST/ESC/CCC, yet I'm the last poster, you never bother to challenge the data I've posted up contrary.
ESC or EST does not mean CCC, it never has and never will. Not only that, ESC and EST aren't exactly the same thing, especially when talking trucks.
(truck only) ESC is the standalone system that GM used on 305's ONLY. Why? Because they were ALL high compression and with the bad heads used, could cause engine problems. Find me a carbed 350 that uses ESC. You won't find it, because the CARBED 350's during the time of standalone ESC were not high compression, and didn't need the knock control like the 305's.
CCC means the carb is comptuer controlled, nothing more, nothing less. You are 100% incorrect that cars got ESC or EST, because *ALL GM cars US destined* were CCC from '81-up, which used ESC/EST as part of the system, but it was NOT standalone like the truck non-CCC ESC setup.
You want to take this line by line, and try to prove I'm wrong, go for it. I can't believe that in all the vehicles you've apparently dealt with, you couldn't put together the same data I have. Saying "this is what I know and I won't accept any other possibility even when presented with proof" is childish.
If you want to save yourself the hassle of being proven wrong on almost every other count, I'm going to prove to you and anyone that needs convinced, that ESC and EST do not mean CCC, and you can let it rest at that.
http://dyeager535.topcities.com/emissions/index.html
If you know ANYTHING about CCC, you know it uses a MAP sensor just like the TBI and SD TPI. On the first two labels in the link above, where is the MAP vacuum line for the CCC? It doesn't exist. Because both of those labels are from light duty trucks, and neither is CCC.
This is the heart of CCC:
http://www.robertpowersmotorsports.com/images/85_Cutlass-CCC1.jpg
Now, if we want to dispel your myths one by one, start by telling everyone why (and how) ESC and CCC are the same thing when I've just shown you that they aren't.
If we took all information presented blindly, we'd be propagating a whole bunch more myths, like the one about TBI trucks with a 465 trans not using VSS. Believe me, if you want to continue down this path, I've got more.
I don't mind a constructive debate about this stuff, but you better come armed with facts, or you are wasting everyones time propagating bad info.
Edit: Since I don't have a problem posting when I'm wrong, I'm going to note that on the back of GM's trucks, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-GMC-Jimmy-ESC-emblem-Chevy-Truck_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33643QQitemZ4517397565QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohosting is what was used on some of the 305 standalone ESC systems. I can also see that in GM's diagnostic scheme ESC and EST are both referenced under the same code system, so for GM diagnostics, that could be confusing.
Additional info? Here is GM's V6 turbo stuff from the late 70's: http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge/images/wire78esc.jpg Look! A standalone ESC system with no CCC or ECM! Seems oddly like what was used on the 305 trucks without CCC...
Haven't we beaten this up in the past? I thought it was pretty clear, but you seem to be unable to grasp the fact that ESC was a standalone *truck* system that was Federal, while CCC was *truck* CA only. (hint here: when talking trucks, think of the badging on the back of certain 80's trucks) You apparently can't grasp the difference between a CCC carb vs. one that has an electrically controlled secondary accelerator pump, as I recall that coming up too in the past. You really need to understand these before posting. I'm not posting this out of anger, but I'm disappointed that a post that is a year old is drug up, and apparently solely to propagate bad information. Because what you posted is not even close to correct. I can probably also go back to half a dozen posts where I've already corrected you on EST/ESC/CCC, yet I'm the last poster, you never bother to challenge the data I've posted up contrary.
ESC or EST does not mean CCC, it never has and never will. Not only that, ESC and EST aren't exactly the same thing, especially when talking trucks.
(truck only) ESC is the standalone system that GM used on 305's ONLY. Why? Because they were ALL high compression and with the bad heads used, could cause engine problems. Find me a carbed 350 that uses ESC. You won't find it, because the CARBED 350's during the time of standalone ESC were not high compression, and didn't need the knock control like the 305's.
CCC means the carb is comptuer controlled, nothing more, nothing less. You are 100% incorrect that cars got ESC or EST, because *ALL GM cars US destined* were CCC from '81-up, which used ESC/EST as part of the system, but it was NOT standalone like the truck non-CCC ESC setup.
You want to take this line by line, and try to prove I'm wrong, go for it. I can't believe that in all the vehicles you've apparently dealt with, you couldn't put together the same data I have. Saying "this is what I know and I won't accept any other possibility even when presented with proof" is childish.
If you want to save yourself the hassle of being proven wrong on almost every other count, I'm going to prove to you and anyone that needs convinced, that ESC and EST do not mean CCC, and you can let it rest at that.
http://dyeager535.topcities.com/emissions/index.html
If you know ANYTHING about CCC, you know it uses a MAP sensor just like the TBI and SD TPI. On the first two labels in the link above, where is the MAP vacuum line for the CCC? It doesn't exist. Because both of those labels are from light duty trucks, and neither is CCC.
This is the heart of CCC:
http://www.robertpowersmotorsports.com/images/85_Cutlass-CCC1.jpg
Now, if we want to dispel your myths one by one, start by telling everyone why (and how) ESC and CCC are the same thing when I've just shown you that they aren't.
If we took all information presented blindly, we'd be propagating a whole bunch more myths, like the one about TBI trucks with a 465 trans not using VSS. Believe me, if you want to continue down this path, I've got more.
I don't mind a constructive debate about this stuff, but you better come armed with facts, or you are wasting everyones time propagating bad info.
Edit: Since I don't have a problem posting when I'm wrong, I'm going to note that on the back of GM's trucks, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-GMC-Jimmy-ESC-emblem-Chevy-Truck_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33643QQitemZ4517397565QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohosting is what was used on some of the 305 standalone ESC systems. I can also see that in GM's diagnostic scheme ESC and EST are both referenced under the same code system, so for GM diagnostics, that could be confusing.
Additional info? Here is GM's V6 turbo stuff from the late 70's: http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge/images/wire78esc.jpg Look! A standalone ESC system with no CCC or ECM! Seems oddly like what was used on the 305 trucks without CCC...
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dyeager535 said:
I got a 1985 K-5 that has the "High Altitude Emissions Package" . I have not found out what all is different but I can tell you that it is a gutless pig ! Thank God it has 3.73's or I do not think it could travel at highway speeds and keep up with traffic. Ha ,ha.
As for your last post up above THANK YOU for posting accurate facts and not misinformed opinions as facts
. Bad info can really mess up some folks that are trying to learn . Tom
dyeager535 said:
And once again it appears as though you may have the final word.
I have no real input other than I know I have a '86 crew cab dually (4wd) with a 454, no electric carb and no cats. It does have cali emissions (thats what it says on the rpo code). Ok I m done fanning the flames.
TrcksR4ME
1/2 ton status
hmmm, ccc, est, esc...I'll have to take Dorians word on that stuff.
What I do know, is that my 85 GMC 3500 had one of those systems installed, it had a place on the fender for some kind of computer, water neck with the sensor in it, and some kind of spark control box on the firewall. I don't know what system it techically had, but it is a 1 ton that had something
What I do know, is that my 85 GMC 3500 had one of those systems installed, it had a place on the fender for some kind of computer, water neck with the sensor in it, and some kind of spark control box on the firewall. I don't know what system it techically had, but it is a 1 ton that had something
