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What TREs/DLEs are you using?

owenst7

1/2 ton status
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What is everyone using for their steering (specifically you big-tire guys)? There's so much confusion and misconception behind these, I'm going to clear some stuff up so we're all on the same page with part names/numbers first...

ES2234R (stock K5 TIE Rod End) This isn't a "1-ton" TRE as it is sold frequently. The shank is 7/8"-18. A true 1-ton end is 1"-18 but has the same taper. ES2010 is a Dodge part, pretty much the same as this but a shorter shank. Mostly, I want there to be a clear difference between "DRAG Link Ends" and "TIE Rod Ends" for the purposes of this discussion.
ES2234R.jpg



ES2026R (standard GM DRAG Line End) These were the same 1/2 ton - 1 ton to my knowledge. They handle significantly more angle than the TREs do (ES2234R).
1109_large_image.jpg


Here's my dilemma:

I've been looking for a couple years in two different states plus the interwebs, finally found the pitman arm I wanted, two actually. Point here is that these arms are priceless to me as they are not likely to be replaceable.

I took these down to a local fab shop. Told them I want them reamed to ES2234R (an 8* taper I believe). I even left my hi-steer arm with them to make sure he couldn't screw this up (I know the TREs and DLEs use the same taper, just different diameter, so it would be easy to misunderstand).

Well the shop guy there ignored what I said, even told me to my face he looked at the hi-steer arm I left with them. He reamed my two super-valuable pitman arms to the DLE diameter (bigger of the two).

I read online (forums, ORD, Ballistic) that the DLEs are weaker and prone to bending at the neck. That's my reasoning for wanting to run TREs on all my steering links. TREs (ES2234) do have the disadvantage that they handle significantly less angle than DLEs do (ES2026, just a reminder).

Should I bust their balls over this and make them find me a replacement and ream it for ES2234? Or, should I just run ES2026? I'd really like to be running 4 of the same end, so I will always have a spare no matter what fails (I'm going to run everything RH threads, bent draglink and assist mount on tie rod anyways).

The shop guy was telling me he did it that way because the DLEs are stonger. Had I not read otherwise on forums, I would agree with him. ES2026 is bigger, and has a more gradual transition from the threads to the head. The engineer in me feels that this is a stronger design, as the abrupt angle change at the shank of ES2234 looks like a lot of stress concentration as force changes direction almost 90*.

Part of me feels people have been calling these by the wrong name. Hell, NAPA even lists ES2026 as a tie rod end. Most people I talk to don't know the differece between a TRE and a DLE. Most 4x4 shops sell ES2234R as a "1-ton" TRE (huge peeve of mine!).

Should I just run ES2026R everywhere (tie rod and drag link)? Is it going to be a strength issue on the tie rod when I add assist?

Currently the truck is on 35"s, but I really don't want answers about "it's strong enough for this application" etc (that's what the shop is telling me, but I want it done right the first time). I'm not planning on getting rid of this truck, and it will get bigger as necessary. It will have assist on it in the near future. It will probably run 42"s while I'm down in NV and AGs if I move back to AK after college. I want this to be as strong as it can be without using heims. I don't like breaking things that can be made stronger by doing it correctly, and I don't want to be limited in size by the strength of my steering.
 
you might be overthinking this one. It seems every part has a stronger part that could be used. There is all sorts of different theorys out there, use the same part in as many spots so you only have to carry one spare etc.

I ran the parts mike steering setup without problems for a while. I ran it on 38s 40s and 42s. I really don't like his steering setup but it works well and I never had a problem with it. The assist should take load off the draglink.

I think you will be fine, BTW if you go as far as ags sometime in the future you may just want to go full hydro.
 
you might be overthinking this one. It seems every part has a stronger part that could be used. There is all sorts of different theorys out there, use the same part in as many spots so you only have to carry one spare etc.

I ran the parts mike steering setup without problems for a while. I ran it on 38s 40s and 42s. I really don't like his steering setup but it works well and I never had a problem with it. The assist should take load off the draglink.

I think you will be fine, BTW if you go as far as ags sometime in the future you may just want to go full hydro.

I've read/been told a lot that ES2026 is weak due to the shape of the neck and bends easily. If this is true, I want the shop to fix the pitman arm problem they have created for me. Currently everything else is reamed for ES2234, so my plan was to use that on all 4 ends. I'd like to know people's experience with these specific ends, as I'm trying to decide if I should just have them ream out my steering arms to match ES2026 now.

I don't feel I'm overthinking this, just asking advice on which end is stronger (or if ES2026 is indeed too weak) so I know which route to take here.

The truck will get hydro when it gets AGs since it won't be street legal at that point. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from in being concerned. The shop is telling me that ES2026 is "just fine" because "they've never broken one". Well, they run 35-37"s on 4000lb JKs. Not really even close to the abuse a tubed K5 on wide tires is going to put on the steering.

What ends does the Parts Mike setup use? I know the tierod will take most of the force once hydro is on, but I still need to figure out the stronger end to run there. Besides, currently the drag link will be taking greater stress than the tie rod since there is no assist at this time.

I just really need to know if I need to make them replace my pitman arms so I can run ES2234 everywhere or if I should ream everything to use ES2026.
 
I run the ES2010L and ES2010R DLE's on mine without any problems. They are 7/8"-18 thread and are the shortest ones available (the shorter they are the stronger they are).

Regardless of what the shop is saying if you TOLD THEM to do a job a certain way and they did not do it that way then they owe you another set of arms. :deal:
 
The set up I had has the DLE on the pitman arm and that ridiculously long TRE ( http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=204&rn=1112&action=show_detail) with the hole in it on the tie rod itself, never bent either. I never expected to bend the DLE but I kind of expected to bend that long TRE, no problems.

I am not nice to my truck, lots of guys sell their trucks I build a new one when my old dies, usually a horrible death

I run the ES2010L and ES2010R DLE's on mine without any problems. They are 7/8"-18 thread and are the shortest ones available (the shorter they are the stronger they are).

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the advice coming from experience. The shop is telling me they screwed up but "made it stronger". I really need non-biased opinions like these.

2010R&L are Dodge TREs by the way, not DLEs. I wish so many online shops weren't causing so much confusion for all of us by throwing around "1-ton" and "TRE" incorrectly. Makes life really hard when you go to buy parts or explain what you're doing to someone.
 
Regardless of what the shop is saying if you TOLD THEM to do a job a certain way and they did not do it that way then they owe you another set of arms. :deal:

I don't know what type of shop it is, off road shop? I tend to agree with Scott here after a bit of thought, you told them to do one thing they did it wrong they need to fix the mistake. I also have built enough stuff to realize that when I am forced to change my plans I think about that on particular part alot even if I have no problems with it.

So while I may have sounded like I was saying suck it up you will be fine, I am now changing my tune to do it how you were planning to do it. You will be much happier with it I bet, even if the alternative will work fine.
 
I don't know what type of shop it is, off road shop? I tend to agree with Scott here after a bit of thought, you told them to do one thing they did it wrong they need to fix the mistake. I also have built enough stuff to realize that when I am forced to change my plans I think about that on particular part alot even if I have no problems with it.

So while I may have sounded like I was saying suck it up you will be fine, I am now changing my tune to do it how you were planning to do it. You will be much happier with it I bet, even if the alternative will work fine.

Ya it's a 4x4 shop. Actually a really well-known pro competitor on pirate. I'm omitting the name out of respect and understanding that this is just carelessness by a shop tech.

Here's my line of thought at the moment, maybe you guys can help me decide what's right:

My plan was to run ES2234 everywhere. It isn't the best for angles (so a compromise for the draglink with high suspension travel). However, my understanding was that it is stronger than ES2026 when used on a tierod with assist because inevitably the ram puts some sideways and twisting forces on the rod end. Because I like to use the same parts when possible (hell, that's why I own 4 GM trucks), I was going to use ES2234 on the drag link too with the angle-capability compromise.

In the event that ES2234 did not give me enough angle capability to handle my new suspension, I was going to switch to ES2026 everywhere. After all, it's the strongest draglink end (DLEs have much greater angle capability than TREs, tie rods don't really move much) that I know of. I'm inclined to believe that ES2026 is weaker than ES2234 based on testimony from others, but due to the misconceptions between what a DLE and a TRE is, what "1-ton" is, etc., I'm also inclined to think that those people might have been describing their parts wrong.

If ES2026 is stronger (as the shop guy is telling me), I should be running it anyways, as it will handle the angles from my suspension better. Basically, I haven't heard testimony either way that I can really use (as nobody can ever give me an accurate part number, they just say "1-ton" ends). I planned on just figuring it out myself, since I could always ream things out for the bigger diameter later.

If I'm inevitably going to run ES2026, then I don't see any reason to break the shop's balls. I seriously doubt they will be able to find me a replacement, let alone two. They're the best supplier around here for tube and lots of other stuff, and I really don't want to end up on bad terms with them due to my own indecision. If they really boned me here that's one thing, but if I was going to go that route eventually anyways, I might as well just let them make this up to me with some inserts or something and stay on good terms.
 
I hear what you are saying, the carelessly used "1-ton DLE" term got me confused too a while back.

My belief is that since the "stress-riser" in the DLE:s are so close to the joint, they really don't matter that much.

If I were to use TRE:s for DLE:s I would first check maximum drop for my right wheel,
and compare angles to what the TRE is capable of.

One more thing, the taper isn't 8 degrees, they have an 8:1 ratio which is more like ~7.125 degrees.
 
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