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who likes old school better than new?

I agree that the early TBI engines are just as easy if not easier to tune and fix than any carb I've ever owned. The system in my Blazer and in my '87 celebrity are extremely simple. There are very few sensors (no more than on an '86 carb'd vehicle I've owned 2 and hated them!) and if anything goes wrong I just jump the circuit under the dash and read the check engine light code. It's troubleshooting for dummies at it's best /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

I've also had newer cars/trucks with ABS failures and Transmission failures due to the systems being wet or overactive. I will never own another vehicle with an electronic automatic transmission again.
 
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I like old school EFI. TBI parts are usually available in a pinch. You're always within 100 miles of a NAPA. Custom stuff will leave you stranded for sure whether it's carburated or injected but if you use stock, common parts you can fix up your rig and drive it out of there.

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I agree with you jeffro, TBI is newer old school that DOES work! TBI is as nearly trouble free as a carb.
 
I like having all the new school electronics, with an old school exterior. I'm panting my truck 10 color monochromatic duplicolor with a mural of a naked chicken on the hood. Then I'm getting a set of "old school" gambler rims. I'm reinstalling my shock boots, but in a flourescent green flair, and adding 2 more per corner. I'm putting on cab steps, and chroming everything that will unbolt. [darn]. this new rockcrawling fad. I want old school looks and i'm gonna get them by god!
 
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With your 2002 your in the woods 20+ miles from the road, 45 miles from the nearest phone. All of a sudden your truck dies. Now is it, fuel pump, cam sensor, crank sensor, map sensor, coolant temp sensor, o2 sensors, ect ect ect ect.

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Barring any mechanical failure that will strand you just as easy as a carb (fuel pump, etc) you'll just limp it home. Thats why the EFI systems HAVE limp home mode. Wonder how many of you carb lovers carry spare floats and carb gaskets in the rig at all times?

Of course, this whole thread/question/quote above is pointless if you drive an automatic. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ("I like things simple, but only as long as it simplifies my life, not really my truck")

And PLEASE!! "Same situation with a 82 truck and it dies, is it
A. fuel pump
B Ignition module/coil/ primary wiring failure"

Don't forget "is it one of the 40 carb parts that are bad?" I think I'd wager there are JUST as many people that can't keep their carbed rig running on this board as there are problems with EFI setups. I'd also wager a bet that most people that are having EFI problems can still DRIVE their rigs.

All mechanical and electrical devices fail, period. Doesn't matter how many or how few, sooner or later, something is gonna fail. Just because you (collectively) aren't familiar with a system, doesn't mean it's not simple, or can't be understood.

All in fun of course, although I'll never again understand the "joy" of simplicity when the future is here, now, and it's fuel injected. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ] But if a carb is going to fail to the point you can't drive it home, it's going to let you know long in advance.
 
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With your 2002 your in the woods 20+ miles from the road, 45 miles from the nearest phone. All of a sudden your truck dies. Now is it, fuel pump, cam sensor, crank sensor, map sensor, coolant temp sensor, o2 sensors, ect ect ect ect.

Same situation with a 82 truck and it dies, is it
A. fuel pump
B Ignition module/coil/ primary wiring failure

Which situatuation woul you like to be in

[/ QUOTE ]I will have it's ass towed into GM and make them fix it under warranty. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

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i beg to differ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

thats kinda hard when the only way to get your truck off land where its illegal to wheel is with the biggest trucks in the county - the tow truck would get stuck. ask me how i know... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif all you SE north carolina boys know what it costs to get john russ out there /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (and for those of you who dont, its $175 for them to just walk out to their purpose-built 600hp 4x4 tow truck and start it, cash up front. they impound the towed vehicle until you pay if you cant pay on the spot. it gets expensive REAL quick)

i dunno, i think TBI is the best of both worlds. ya got EFI and limp modes, but without all the bullshit systems to worry about. and ya can read the trouble codes with a paperclip! (hmm, paperclip...$300 hypertech, paperclip...$300 hypertech....you do the math)
 
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With your 2002 your in the woods 20+ miles from the road, 45 miles from the nearest phone. All of a sudden your truck dies. Now is it, fuel pump, cam sensor, crank sensor, map sensor, coolant temp sensor, o2 sensors, ect ect ect ect.

Same situation with a 82 truck and it dies, is it
A. fuel pump
B Ignition module/coil/ primary wiring failure

Which situatuation woul you like to be in

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Either way your stuck without parts, and some without tools.
If I have a set of pliers I'll diconnect the battery for 10 seconds and hook it back up to reset the computer (hey it might get me back to the main road). As you can see in the sig... I have 2-87 blazers /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif NEVER NEVER NEVER going carb again. I traded an clean rust free /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif that ran OK and had problems in the winter time for my blazer. I still say I got the better deal /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif Replaced the sheet metal and other than oil changes and tune-ups the truck for the last 7 years it has got two sets of plugs/wires, one coil, 3 cap and rotors and a timing chain, degressed the engine painted it black put yellow valve covers on, used carb cleaner a few times and replaced a working alt with a 130amp alt. And you know what!? I can go outside in -10 degree weather crank it over for two seconds and it fires everytime (and I've done it several times!) I have a remote starter sitting here under my desk that the plow truck (also an 87 blazer) is going to get once I finish the floors and put the fuel tank back in.
This plow truck was totally original! It has the factory shocks on it /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif its totally rusted out with 80K miles (from being a poorly kept plow truck), its only on its second cap, rotor, wires (the plugs look like rusty GM ones), its thrid set of fuel and brake lines but it still starts within 2 seconds of cranking. There where two days last winter I thought FORSURE I was going to have to charge the cheap walmart battery (-20 with the windchill and 2 feet of snow), I jumped in and it fired right up like it was in Cali on a balmy summer afternoon /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Within 10 minutes the thermostat opened up and it got hot enough inside I rolled the window down to cool off /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

So, I'll keep my computers and a few sensors and you can adjust the choke on your carb all you want /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
But then again, Different Strokes, for different folks /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
I'm going to look at this from the money aspect. I'm just guessing at all of this stuff so help me out here.


New school
New truck payment = 350.00 per month
New truck Insurance = 150.00 per month

Total just to own it and drive not including repairs = 500.00 per month or 6000.00 per year.

Throw in a couple repairs that you can't do yourself and your pushing 6500.00 or more real fast. In two years time you will owe more on it than its worth.

Old school (for me)
Monthly payment = 0
Monthly insurance = 25.00

Total to own and drive not including repairs = $300.00

Now throw in my entire last years repairs and this is my daily driver. 200.00 cash. This is including swapping out an engine. My number one parts store is the local pick and pull.

New school at least 6500.00 bucks
Old school 500.00 to say 1000.00 if she nickels and dimes you alot.

I'm going old school. It may not get as good of gas mileage but I can be proud of it and buy alot of gas for 5500.00 bucks.

New = yuppie /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Old = Connoisseur
 
stuff thats good to have off of...

new trucks : FI

old trucks : everything else.

heated seats, side window defoggers, power windows, power locks, tcases that shift with cheap electronic switches, silly traction control systems etc etc are all just useless poop that car manufacturers throw on there to get more $ out of you. No doubt in my mind that gm could build a new k5 with a D60/ff14b etc and sell it for $15-20k and still make a profit so long as it didnt have all the useless crap that "modern" vehicles have today.

j
 
I think a mixture of the "best or most reliable" combination of old and new is the optimum set up .

I bought my K5 to build up to be a RELIABLE off-road vehicle - I am tired of keeping a race type motor in constant tune and beating the drivetrain to death by pushing the truck to its limits everytime I go out wheeling.
My combo is an old reliable in-line six cylinder GM engine with a proven ( durrable ) T.B.I. set up on it and a 465 tranny with a durrable 205 and standard issue K-30 axles.
My Blazer is a Silverado version but I am changing out the power windows and locks for the basic manual set up for a more reliable system.
I love the old school simplicity but the T.B.I. system has proven to be extremely reliable and I would rather carry spare sensors/relays and fuel pump rather than spare carb parts and a mechanical pump.
As far as spare parts go - I do believe that GM has sold an AMAZING amount of T.B.I. equiped cars and trucks from 1987 to 1995 and any parts house worth a damn carry's replacement parts for them .The drivabilty of a mild motor with F.I. is GREAT !
I would not go out and use some complicated F.I. system but I don't see any more of a problem using a simple set up like a Throttle Body by Rotchester than a good old Quadrajet.....
I think the best of both worlds is the answer . /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Tom
 
ok i have a 88 w/ stock 350 tbi how dose the paperclip work? You cross wires on the plug and the check engen light flashes the problem coad???? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif sounds cool!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
 
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I will have it's ass towed into GM and make them fix it under warranty. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

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i beg to differ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

thats kinda hard when the only way to get your truck off land where its illegal to wheel is with the biggest trucks in the county - the tow truck would get stuck. ask me how i know... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif all you SE north carolina boys know what it costs to get john russ out there /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (and for those of you who dont, its $175 for them to just walk out to their purpose-built 600hp 4x4 tow truck and start it, cash up front. they impound the towed vehicle until you pay if you cant pay on the spot. it gets expensive REAL quick)



[/ QUOTE ]First off I wouldn't be wheeling a brand new truck and second I don't wheel in illegal areas. Sometimes the warranty will cover the tow bill and everything anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
MY OPINION :
old school = being able to crawl into your engine compartment to work on your truck.
new school = hoping there is someone nearby with smaller arms to reach everything in the engine compartment
SO I VOTE FOR OLD SCHOOL, even though I'm sure TBI would be nice
 
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First off I wouldn't be wheeling a brand new truck and second I don't wheel in illegal areas. Sometimes the warranty will cover the tow bill and everything anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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lol, i want that warranty. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
anyway, there were no "no trespassing" signs (this time) and theres no legal areas near-by. unless you count the beach. i dont need 4wd for the beach.

brand new truck? its a 97 with 99k miles on it. hardly new. (wish it was - maybe i wouldnt break my DD) /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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heated seats

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They kick ass in a soft top & door truck. One day my '73 will get them. A buddy of mine has a CJ-7 w/ heated seats, cant be beat on a cold morning.
 
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brand new truck? its a 97 with 99k miles on it. hardly new. (wish it was - maybe i wouldnt break my DD) /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

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I was talking about when I buy a newer truck. I am going to buy a 04' crew cab duramax (because there is a new SRW 1ton available again /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) in a few years when I can get one used with low miles. I will start looking in probably 05' or 06'.
 
gotcha. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

yea, i think this is probably the last major wheelin trip for ZEN TREE. im gonna go look at the K5 up the road, see what kinda condition its in for $2500 /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
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But if a carb is going to fail to the point you can't drive it home, it's going to let you know long in advance.

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I'm living proof that isn't the case. Almost got stranded in the middle of nowhere because the carbs float (apparently) got stuck with no warning.

Everyone now is talking about new bodies and what not. I thought we were talking carb vs. EFI vs. Diesel here.

I'm all about new school drivetrain stuff we can use, but leave IFS, heated seats with air lumbar, and DVD players to the minivans. There IS a point when there are too many things on the vehicle, and I'd have to say in a truck, heated seats with air lumbar is it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you want comfort, buy a car. If you want/need a rugged vehicle, get a truck.
 
wow,great responses.a power programer is cool,but i still kile my old ass truck.after the rebuild the only thing thats left is a toggle switch for the ignition.i know that technology works better,WAY better than in the past. i just have bad luck with power window's , so the computer in trucks are bound to screw me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.and as far as auto transes go ,i love sticks.my tb400 has never let me down you have to go reeaal fast to pull start an auto.(it can be done).plus with a new truck-GPS- and all you can be shut down while driving,let e'm try that with my 79. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. any way i just like to look at a part and see it's broke,noy test it. /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gifto /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
 
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my tb400 has never let me down you have to go reeaal fast to pull start an auto.(it can be done)

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I'd like to see this. I've seen auto rigs turned off and restart without actually using the starter, but thats because the engine was still turning.

Newer trannies are all front pumps, meaning the pressure to hold the clutches against each other (and in gear) is generated by the engine turning. With no direct connection between the engine and driveshaft, you'll never turn that front pump. That's why you aren't supposed to tow newer auto vehicles very fast or very far, as you will burn them up with no fluid being pumped around.
 
i never pull started my truck.just my buddy's old dodge,it worked. old truck 60's. see old is better. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gifto /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
 
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