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Winch questions

mAdhaTTeR

mAdhaTTeR

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I am sure this has been covered , I did a search and came up with page after page of winch threads. Fingers are numb from mousing...

What specs do should I be looking at for pull rating? I know 8,000 lbs will pull my k5 while not in the mud, but do you take into account for resistance while being stuck? I am positive it will add pull weight to the winch. So what is the minimum rating I should be looking at? Be easy, it's my first winch:D
 
Load rating of 1.5 x weight of the vehicle, more if you do mud (you're correct, mud adds significant amounts of resistance to the recovery), balance line speed vs. amp draw vs. capabilities of your electrical system (what's the point of having the fastest 16.5k winch when you melt down your electricals after 20 seconds...), solid method of winch attachment to the truck, solid attachment points for D-rings on your own vehicle so you can do a double line with a snatch block (increase of pulling power at the expense of line speed). For occasional use I'd stick with the steel cable (rather than synthetic rope), make sure you have something to weigh it down during a pull.
 
just buy the biggest winch you possibly can... then you are golden...:wink1:

i got a patriot extreme 15,000lb in the bed of my truck... 7/16 cable... but never used the winch.. got to get my truck done and back on the road..

also depends on what you want to do....

example.. I went as large as i could in back to get me out... however im going to go mile marker 10.5k hydraulic up front... if i was going forward and the truck is running... I AM GOING FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!! :haha:
 
I've had a Ramsey 9,000 for years on my 40" tire, 1-ton Blazer and it has never let me down. I do NOT do heavy mudbogging by any means so I have never needed to use it to pull out truck that has been buried in mud. Actually, I have never used it because of being truly stuck in the terms that I could not move forward or reverse but I have used in numerous times because I couldn't get over an obstacle or up a steep climb. One such time was a relatively steep hill tha had been bulldozed recently and because of it was deep enough soft mud that the diffs were dragging. I could back down the hill, but after several tries I couldn't make it all the way up. The 9k winch pulled me up the hill with no problems.

I also need to state that most people don't optimize the pulling the power of the winch by simply pulling out more cable and thus putting it closer to the drum. Usually a winch has almost double the pulling capacity because of gearing when the cable is winding directly against the drum, and looses capacity for each additional wrap on the drum. Think of switching between 54" and 30" tires on a truck with the same axle gears and you get the idea of the difference. Of course you can always use a snatch-block to double the power again.

I have a brand new never used snatch block sitting in my toolbox for 3 years now, and I have never had to stop and unspool more cable because I needed more pulling power either. But again, this is what I consider normal trailriding and not mudbogging.
 
6.2Blazer said:
I also need to state that most people don't optimize the pulling the power of the winch by simply pulling out more cable and thus putting it closer to the drum. Usually a winch has almost double the pulling capacity because of gearing when the cable is winding directly against the drum, and looses capacity for each additional wrap on the drum.
Click to expand...

exactly... i agree.. when pulling you should pull out ALL cable and send the line via snatch block to another tree or back to the truck...... to get full pull ....

check out here...
http://www.ramsey.com/winches/patriot15000.html#automotive

with 4 layers of cable my 15k winch is rated at 9k and with none is 15k.... and i believe that is Rolling weight.... not truely sure but i remember something about winches and ratings being done as rolling weight.. hence the 1.5 times weight of truck....at minimal
 
Well, there are so many variables, its hard to say. Generally get the strongest you can afford.
If your rig needs a 12,000# winch, but you can only afford an 8, 000# one, get it.
Even a small winch is better than no winch at all.
If you have enough cable and enough snatch blocks, you can get out eventually.

I have had a winch on every off-road vehicle I have ever owned. I subscribe to the "too much is not quite enough" school of winch sizing.
My present winch is a hydraulically driven power-takeoff driven off the transfer case.

Its big enough so it will break the 3/8 steel cable even with a full spool.

In your case, go with a name brand, 12,000# if you can swing it. Make sure that the mount is strong enough, and use grade 8 or 9 bolts.
Good heavy battery cables. Remember, unless you have a huge after-market alternator, the winch will pull more than the alternator can put out.

Which means that you need a good big battery.

Most of the time, your winch pulls will be fairly brief. You will learn about how long you can pull before you need to let the battery recharge.
I'm impatient, plus I get called out to pull out more than one truck at times, so I use the power take off setup.
It will pull as long as the engine is running.

But both have their strengths and drawbacks.

J.
 
Fordum said:
"too much is not quite enough"
Click to expand...

man after my own words... when i looked at my winch specs...
15k pull means 0 cable on drum.... also max 460amps!!!!! :eek1:

so i run 000 yes 3/0 cable from winch to batteries....yes batteries
i have 2 dump truck batteries in the bed in parallel... the biggins where each is the physical size of 2 normals and they have rope handles...
they are 1395ca and 395 reserve minutes or something like that....

gonna run 0 (1/0) cable from batteries to under the hood for the recharge wire when i go from a 63 amp alt to the 140amp pontiac transport alt... which will be joined in by a 200A relay that also adds 2 x duralast gold 1000ca batteries under the hood....

if im stuck bad and truck is off.... turn key off and still have 2 large batteries to get out... and hopefully use the 1000'z to start... or let all batteries work to get me out...... :D
 
do winch motors burn up?

I have had a number of 4x4 jeeps and trucks over the years and most of them were equiped with some sort of a pto driven front mounted winch. Most off of the transfer case a some from ther transmission. I have never broken a u joint or bent a frame like some say is possible. I have broken a number of cables. At one of the local off road places I have pulled out a number of "stuck" vehicles and a number of them said they have seen the motors of electric winches burn up, especially during heavy or long pulls. Is this true? Pto winches are now getting harder to fit to the newer trucks and an electric winch might be the only way to go on my next 4x4.
 
RootBreaker said:
i have 2 dump truck batteries in the bed in parallel... the biggins where each is the physical size of 2 normals and they have rope handles...
they are 1395ca and 395 reserve minutes or something like that....
Click to expand...



dooood... those batteries are called 8D's... that's the size.... :wink1:
 
Don't forget the ground cables. 000 copper is a whole lot more conductive than steel.

When I used to build and install electric winches, I would usually hook a ground wire directly to the winch.
We used to have problems with the bushing getting hot on the end of the Ford starter motors we used for winch motors.

We finally realized that the ground brushes for the motor were attached to the end plate, and if the plate was not making good contact with the housing the current would go through the shaft.

We started mounting a large copper stud in the end plate and hooking a ground cable to it, and the bushings ran cool.

J.
 
Winch motors can burn up, but if they are built right usually don't. I personally prefer PTO winches, and have had them on all my 4wd vehicles.

The one I am using now, is an example of a way to get a PTO winch when a shaft won't work.
I had a spare PTO winch when I bought my new truck. I changed out the transfer case for a 205 because the stock one did not have a PTO opening.

After I did, I discovered that there was basically no way to get a shaft to the front of the truck without some very complicated routing that was not going to fly.

So, I mounted a hydraulic tank under the tool box, faced the PTO unit backwards towards the back of the truck and mounted a hydraulic pump on it.
A hydraulic motor on the winch, a forward/reverse/neutral valve and some hoses completed the system.

It works very well, and has never failed me, or failed to pull out whatever I told it to.
But, if I were starting over, I would make some changes.

First, I would get one of the several engine mounted pumps that are out there. Not the ones like on the cement trucks that shaft mount to the end of the crankshaft, but the ones with the air conditioner type clutch that are belt driven.

The reason is, my pump would not tolerate being driven backwards. So, if I am pulling someone out, and want to just put the transfer case in gear, transmission in reverse, and back up slightly, I have to be sure to disengage the PTO first.

Also, if you have one of the really big winches, like my Braden, that is seriously geared down, spring for the small amount of extra plumbing, and get a two speed hydraulic motor.
Mine has an 8 cubic inch motor. It pulls well, but takes forever to wind in the excess cable.
I had the option of getting a two speed 5/10 cubic inch motor.
Not only would that have lowered the maximum pressure on the system for increased life of the components, but I could have shifted it to high speed for a faster reel in.

J.
 
Yes, electric winch motors can "burn up". I have never personally seen an electric winch fail in this way and have witnessed probably hundreds of winch recoveries on the trail over the years (at least 4-5 winch recoveries just a couple weeks ago on a trailride).
 
Yep, winch motors are much improved over the old ones. There finally developed a big enough market for them that you can buy motors designed especially for winches.

Back when I used to help build winches, we used 6 volt Ford starters.
We tried 12 volt ones, but they would burn up on a hard pull.

6 volt ones don't use wire, they use copper bus-bars. They can handle the current. We had to develop a way to check for shorts in the armatures though.

When we got them back from the re-builders we would find about 10% of them with partial shorts.
They were fine for intermittent duty in starters, but would overheat in a winch.

Plus, we had to add a ground lug.
Today's winch motors don't have all those problems.

J.
 
I thought the PTO port on a SM465 was one direction regardless of gear. Then the PTO for a hydro pump could operate in neutral as well as any forward or reverse gear.

'Course that doesnt matter if you've got an AT or a MT that doesnt have PTO ports:rolleyes:
 
You're probably right. Mine is running off the PTO port on a NP205 behind a C6 transmission.

My old truck had the same setup, but it was a shaft drive off the 205, and I could back the winch up by putting the tranny in reverse.

Or, if I was backing the truck up to finish pulling someone out, I would put the transfer case in gear, and put the transmission in reverse.

The winch would turn backwards as I did so, but not fast enough to mean anything.

If I had a setup like you mention, it would be a lot nicer.

J.
 
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