Does the curve of the door panel patch match your factory curve? Check it against your factory piece or a factory fender.
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WTF Do I do now - 1988 K5
- Thread starter THEMCGUIRE
- Start date
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
Yes the front fender and rear fenders are very close to the matching the door.
Please go back one post for more pics
I no longer have the factory fenders. got rid of them 4 years ago before I had to stop working on this project.
Attached pics show alignment with rear fender tacked and front fender using rear bolt only.
(Glass: When the welder was putting outer skins on little balls of metal rolled onto the glass. Next morning both door windows were shattered. FYI )
Please go back one post for more pics
I no longer have the factory fenders. got rid of them 4 years ago before I had to stop working on this project.
Attached pics show alignment with rear fender tacked and front fender using rear bolt only.
(Glass: When the welder was putting outer skins on little balls of metal rolled onto the glass. Next morning both door windows were shattered. FYI )
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THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
Alignment of doors.
The rockers were the 1st parts to be installed because else the cab roof was just floating in the air.
The rockers seem to fit perfect and when we temporarily put the front fenders on, the bolt hole where the rocker bolts to the fender matched right up. We just slid in the bolt and tightened.
That is why I think the rockers are correctly installed.
When I bought the rockers, over 4 years ago, I did not know which I needed so I bought both the full rockers and the rocker caps which are just missing the ends.
I am now considering just installing the new caps right on top of the new full rockers, and positioning them to make the door fit given that the door line at the bottom is so close to the front and rear fender lines.
???????????????????????????/
The rockers were the 1st parts to be installed because else the cab roof was just floating in the air.
The rockers seem to fit perfect and when we temporarily put the front fenders on, the bolt hole where the rocker bolts to the fender matched right up. We just slid in the bolt and tightened.
That is why I think the rockers are correctly installed.
When I bought the rockers, over 4 years ago, I did not know which I needed so I bought both the full rockers and the rocker caps which are just missing the ends.
I am now considering just installing the new caps right on top of the new full rockers, and positioning them to make the door fit given that the door line at the bottom is so close to the front and rear fender lines.
???????????????????????????/
chulisohombre
1/2 ton status
If you can get it in there and look good it could work. It's weird that the door doesn't line up right. If it ball bolted up Correct and all. With a lot if these replacement pieces made in china you're bound to run into fitment issues somewhere. Just none I've had have been as bad as you describe so far.
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
It should not be called Murphy's law... They should change it to McGuire's Law.
The cap style rocker fits right over the new full rocker. Since both doors have the same problem it has to be the part. However, we measured the old bottoms vs. the new bottoms and they are the same.
Also, I measured across the cab from the center of both door strikers and the pillar distance is very close to the spec's that I have.
Given that the driver door striker area on the driver side pillar had to be replaced as the old was cracked, and that the driver door does latch onto the new striker.
Will look into "fitting" that cap rocker on. However, if I do that the door molding will be really messed up. I guess since I have the old molding I can put the new where it belongs and the old on the "cap style rocker" but that will look like crap.
================================================================================================================
2 hours later... read a lot of posts on other threads... I think I have to relook at the basics.
1. I am working in my driveway and it is old and rutted. I think that I have to take almost everything back off and raise the truck until the frame is level. There is a spot between the cab body mounts that appears to be flat and level so I will use that point to work on. My thinking is that there may be "torsinal" (is that a word ) stress's that are being caused by the truck not being exactly level.
Update: The passenger rear and driver front had to be raised... now frame is level. Raised each about 2 inchs.
2. Next I have to get the pillars at the right height. I do not have the cab floor support brackets welded in. In previous posts I comment how far away the outside ends of the rear floor supports are from the rocker panels, the front supports are very close. There is something really wrong there I am sure. I am going to move the doors strikers so that they are exactly this same distance from the pillars, using the passenger striker as my guide since that has never been moved, and then re-measure the distance between them. Per the spec's they should be 1858 cm apart. If they are within 1 to 2 CM of that I will accept that.
Update: Raised the cab until the rockers were level from front to back. HOPE THIS IS CORRECT !!. Put a angle thingie.. lol It shows that the angle of each rocker panel is about 8 degrees from level. Higher on the cab side lower on the door side.
I also discovered that after losening the body mounts the rear cab supports can move at least an inch closer to the pillar.
Should the rocker panel be level from inside to outside?
The cab weatherstripping bead is tilted in towards the cab so I know I can hammer that towards the door to get it closer to the door.
The weatherstripping on the windshield pillar comes down strait until it hits the rocker panel then is curves inward toward the cab. Reverse happens at the stricker side.
Also the weatherstripping is flush with the door until it hits the rocker panel. (Again pics coming after recharge of camera battery)
3. Then I will put the doors back on and see if they have come closer to the rockers. I believe that this is so important so that the door bottoms are up against the rubber door gaskets so wind, and dust dont get in. (Since I am moving to Vegas I dont want sand getting in...)
Sound like a plan ? So would you agree with the following:
1. The new rocker panel should be around the pillers rather than inside the pillers ?
2. The angle of the rocker panel should be level both front to back and left to right ?
Please advise
The cap style rocker fits right over the new full rocker. Since both doors have the same problem it has to be the part. However, we measured the old bottoms vs. the new bottoms and they are the same.
Also, I measured across the cab from the center of both door strikers and the pillar distance is very close to the spec's that I have.
Given that the driver door striker area on the driver side pillar had to be replaced as the old was cracked, and that the driver door does latch onto the new striker.
Will look into "fitting" that cap rocker on. However, if I do that the door molding will be really messed up. I guess since I have the old molding I can put the new where it belongs and the old on the "cap style rocker" but that will look like crap.
================================================================================================================
2 hours later... read a lot of posts on other threads... I think I have to relook at the basics.
1. I am working in my driveway and it is old and rutted. I think that I have to take almost everything back off and raise the truck until the frame is level. There is a spot between the cab body mounts that appears to be flat and level so I will use that point to work on. My thinking is that there may be "torsinal" (is that a word ) stress's that are being caused by the truck not being exactly level.
Update: The passenger rear and driver front had to be raised... now frame is level. Raised each about 2 inchs.
2. Next I have to get the pillars at the right height. I do not have the cab floor support brackets welded in. In previous posts I comment how far away the outside ends of the rear floor supports are from the rocker panels, the front supports are very close. There is something really wrong there I am sure. I am going to move the doors strikers so that they are exactly this same distance from the pillars, using the passenger striker as my guide since that has never been moved, and then re-measure the distance between them. Per the spec's they should be 1858 cm apart. If they are within 1 to 2 CM of that I will accept that.
Update: Raised the cab until the rockers were level from front to back. HOPE THIS IS CORRECT !!. Put a angle thingie.. lol It shows that the angle of each rocker panel is about 8 degrees from level. Higher on the cab side lower on the door side.
I also discovered that after losening the body mounts the rear cab supports can move at least an inch closer to the pillar.
Should the rocker panel be level from inside to outside?
The cab weatherstripping bead is tilted in towards the cab so I know I can hammer that towards the door to get it closer to the door.
The weatherstripping on the windshield pillar comes down strait until it hits the rocker panel then is curves inward toward the cab. Reverse happens at the stricker side.
Also the weatherstripping is flush with the door until it hits the rocker panel. (Again pics coming after recharge of camera battery)
3. Then I will put the doors back on and see if they have come closer to the rockers. I believe that this is so important so that the door bottoms are up against the rubber door gaskets so wind, and dust dont get in. (Since I am moving to Vegas I dont want sand getting in...)
Sound like a plan ? So would you agree with the following:
1. The new rocker panel should be around the pillers rather than inside the pillers ?
2. The angle of the rocker panel should be level both front to back and left to right ?
Please advise
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THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
Update:
I feel abandoned.... No one has responsed to my last posts. Did I say something wrong?
Rockers back in measurements are correct. Level from side to side.
1/4 panels did not fit right so we jacked up the front under the front body support brackets and it changed the angle of the cab and now the 1/4's are almost right on.
Hit the door moulding mount point till they were exactly verticle and now the doors are nice and flush against the moulding all he way around. I hope new moulding will be tighter.
Welder is putting complete welds on the rockers now then we will jack from under the rockers and weld the front and rear floor brackets in place.
Feeling better about the whole thing now.
I feel abandoned.... No one has responsed to my last posts. Did I say something wrong?
Rockers back in measurements are correct. Level from side to side.
1/4 panels did not fit right so we jacked up the front under the front body support brackets and it changed the angle of the cab and now the 1/4's are almost right on.
Hit the door moulding mount point till they were exactly verticle and now the doors are nice and flush against the moulding all he way around. I hope new moulding will be tighter.
Welder is putting complete welds on the rockers now then we will jack from under the rockers and weld the front and rear floor brackets in place.
Feeling better about the whole thing now.
sorry man, little preoccupied these days...
i'll try to reply tonight...
i'll try to reply tonight...chulisohombre
1/2 ton status
Looks like you figured it out now. My rocker went outside the quarter but flush to it where the curve comes up the a and b puller. It has a slight bend down to the bottom of floor to the end of the rocker so water will drain back to the outside. Not sure on exact angle. Would have to measure the door bend as it follows the slope of the rocker. Sounds like you have decided to Keep It now with the work you are Putting into it. It will basically be a brand new truck with all the new sheet metal and its nice to Look at it and say I built that truck from the ground up. I couldn't imagine what you are going through with keeping the body rigid to weld it exactly where it needs to be. When I took my rockers out the truck bent a good inch so I had to put support between the a and b pillar to push it back into place.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Wish I could offer advice buddy. Stay strong!
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
Thanks guys. So to pass on what i have learned regarding keeping it rigid, and strait.
Important: Make sure the frame is level so that all cab measurements for level are accurate. My driveway had ruts. I had to lift the driver side front 2" and passenger rear almost 3" to get the frame level.
I did not do the setup all at once. but over time I found that with all the body gone except for the firewall and cab roof I have done the following:
1. Used a come along to pull the bottom of the firewall back. I hooked from the 4wd shifter bracket to the main frame cross member to accomplish this.
2. Installed the new rocker panels. The new rocker panels fit best when installed over the pillars. And I now made sure that they are level - left to right and front to back. (When I did this the measurements of the door opening are within a millemeter of spec. - I provided spec sheet in a earlier post in this thread and in a separate post that only contains the spec sheet for this 1988 2 door and spec sheets for the 1988 S10 as well.)
3. After bolting in the new front floor support brackets to the new body mounts and installing the floor kick panels I lifted the cab from under the outside ends of the new brackets until the floor will be level front to back and left to right. Then I put a piece of angle iron from the ground to the edge of the firewall (you will find it if you look) and removed the jacks so I can used the jacks elsewhere.
As I was doing this the pole clamps, that I used as supports, I had placed against the back of the rear pillars just fell away and the cab just floated free and almost level. While I put the poles back asap, to me this proved that the floor support brackets are critial to positioning the cab at the right height.
4. I believe that the 4 floor support brackets are the critical points that I did not understand before. If the top of them are 100% level everything else seems to fall into place.
Welder returns tomorrow. We are going to level the rear floor supports and it looks like that will assure that the front of the new 1/4's will wrap around the rear pillar correctly and fall into the groove at the back of the rocker. Fingers crossed.
Important: Make sure the frame is level so that all cab measurements for level are accurate. My driveway had ruts. I had to lift the driver side front 2" and passenger rear almost 3" to get the frame level.
I did not do the setup all at once. but over time I found that with all the body gone except for the firewall and cab roof I have done the following:
1. Used a come along to pull the bottom of the firewall back. I hooked from the 4wd shifter bracket to the main frame cross member to accomplish this.
2. Installed the new rocker panels. The new rocker panels fit best when installed over the pillars. And I now made sure that they are level - left to right and front to back. (When I did this the measurements of the door opening are within a millemeter of spec. - I provided spec sheet in a earlier post in this thread and in a separate post that only contains the spec sheet for this 1988 2 door and spec sheets for the 1988 S10 as well.)
3. After bolting in the new front floor support brackets to the new body mounts and installing the floor kick panels I lifted the cab from under the outside ends of the new brackets until the floor will be level front to back and left to right. Then I put a piece of angle iron from the ground to the edge of the firewall (you will find it if you look) and removed the jacks so I can used the jacks elsewhere.
As I was doing this the pole clamps, that I used as supports, I had placed against the back of the rear pillars just fell away and the cab just floated free and almost level. While I put the poles back asap, to me this proved that the floor support brackets are critial to positioning the cab at the right height.
4. I believe that the 4 floor support brackets are the critical points that I did not understand before. If the top of them are 100% level everything else seems to fall into place.
Welder returns tomorrow. We are going to level the rear floor supports and it looks like that will assure that the front of the new 1/4's will wrap around the rear pillar correctly and fall into the groove at the back of the rocker. Fingers crossed.
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THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
Update
It has rained a lot and Boris the welder has had a lot of other work but here is an update:
The 4 floor support brackets are now in.
The front inner fenders fit correctly and are in hand tightened.
We messed up and cut the bottom of the driver door skin. We cut it because it did not fold and overlap along with the new door bottom. However that was a mistake. It was the new door bottom's edge that was wrong. On the passenger side we did not cut and just folded the bottom over on itself and it fit's the rocker nicely.
Using web come-alongs we pulled the sides in until the fender / door line was strait and then welded.
Removed all jacks (except the 2 holding the frame level and the truck looks good. It is basically free standing Yeah !
However, the rear quarters I got from LMC 4 years ago are messed up!!
The edge line where they come around the rear pillars are short. I will have to fill that in with something idk what right now.
The tailgate end of these quarters are also messed up. But that has to wait until I get the floors in.
And to make matters worse the curve at the top above the door handle line do NOT match the door curve. I will have to live with this for now but not happy. It's not a lot but wtf they should match. Below the curve the are quite close.
The cap fits but I will have to drill new holes to match where the bolts go on the new quarters.
All in all these quarter panels suck. No wonder LMC is looking for a new supplier for them.
Boris will be back next Tuesday to help finish the rear floor support frame and the floors themselves.
Thanks for the support. I will edit this and add pictures when I borrow the camera again.
It has rained a lot and Boris the welder has had a lot of other work but here is an update:
The 4 floor support brackets are now in.
The front inner fenders fit correctly and are in hand tightened.
We messed up and cut the bottom of the driver door skin. We cut it because it did not fold and overlap along with the new door bottom. However that was a mistake. It was the new door bottom's edge that was wrong. On the passenger side we did not cut and just folded the bottom over on itself and it fit's the rocker nicely.
Using web come-alongs we pulled the sides in until the fender / door line was strait and then welded.
Removed all jacks (except the 2 holding the frame level and the truck looks good. It is basically free standing Yeah !
However, the rear quarters I got from LMC 4 years ago are messed up!!
The edge line where they come around the rear pillars are short. I will have to fill that in with something idk what right now.
The tailgate end of these quarters are also messed up. But that has to wait until I get the floors in.
And to make matters worse the curve at the top above the door handle line do NOT match the door curve. I will have to live with this for now but not happy. It's not a lot but wtf they should match. Below the curve the are quite close.
The cap fits but I will have to drill new holes to match where the bolts go on the new quarters.
All in all these quarter panels suck. No wonder LMC is looking for a new supplier for them.
Boris will be back next Tuesday to help finish the rear floor support frame and the floors themselves.
Thanks for the support. I will edit this and add pictures when I borrow the camera again.
chulisohombre
1/2 ton status
Good work. Coming along nicely. At least in the end you will basically have a new truck.
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
I have stopped work on the body. I wanted to see if the truck runs. IT DOES NOT>
So I started a new thread, in the meantime fyi called
"88 K5 will not start...need help. "
I will come back to this when I get it running..
thanks for all the help btw.
So I started a new thread, in the meantime fyi called
"88 K5 will not start...need help. "
I will come back to this when I get it running..
thanks for all the help btw.
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
Update new pics - Bare Metal has spots
Hello all, so with the truck up and running after rewiring from relay to pump I am back to the body. Pictures included.
We started sanding the roof of the cab with 80 grit. See pic titled sanded roof shows pitting marks.
There rust under the paint so I have to get down to bare metal. Can anyone advise me about these spots on the metal. They feel smooth to the touch, like glass but I am worried they are hiding rust.
What is the best way to handle these.
On other pics, note horrible alignment of new fenders, front and rear, to the original door panel curve.
No amount of hammering will fix these bad fits. I guess if I bought the aftermarket doors they might line up have to lives with this for a while will fix after the move to Vegas.
So how do i handle these spots in the, are they hidden rust or just discoloration.
Hello all, so with the truck up and running after rewiring from relay to pump I am back to the body. Pictures included.
We started sanding the roof of the cab with 80 grit. See pic titled sanded roof shows pitting marks.
There rust under the paint so I have to get down to bare metal. Can anyone advise me about these spots on the metal. They feel smooth to the touch, like glass but I am worried they are hiding rust.
What is the best way to handle these.
On other pics, note horrible alignment of new fenders, front and rear, to the original door panel curve.
No amount of hammering will fix these bad fits. I guess if I bought the aftermarket doors they might line up have to lives with this for a while will fix after the move to Vegas.
So how do i handle these spots in the, are they hidden rust or just discoloration.
Hidden rust... sandblasting will get those out. Also your door alignment looks way off.
Have you bought a welder yet and tried doing it yourself ?
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
answers
The welder, aka Boris, has been using my welder. I suck at it cause it is so slow, requires too much patience.
That gap is the best we were able to get it. That rear quarter panel was 1/4" shorter then the passenger side.
The plan is to use that hair bondo to fix that line. the other side is a bit better but it's the curve mis-alignment that pisses me off.
But aside from that... those spots after sanding down to bare metal are my biggest concern right now.
Are they stains in the metal or what they are not shiny like other areas.
The welder, aka Boris, has been using my welder. I suck at it cause it is so slow, requires too much patience.
That gap is the best we were able to get it. That rear quarter panel was 1/4" shorter then the passenger side.
The plan is to use that hair bondo to fix that line. the other side is a bit better but it's the curve mis-alignment that pisses me off.
But aside from that... those spots after sanding down to bare metal are my biggest concern right now.
Are they stains in the metal or what they are not shiny like other areas.
steel wool and muriatic acid.. blasting a roof can easily lead to warping if ya don't know what your doing, heat, abrasive-wise, etc.. just make sure to wear a respirator when working with acid, and neutralize with baking soda when done... you can get gallons of muriatic at most hardware stores for under $10... DO NOT BREATH IN.....,
looks like that one door is in all along the top... might wanna try bending that out.. open door, put a hunk of 4x4 at the top back corner of door... try to close door with 2 hands at the mid bodyline....
looks like that one door is in all along the top... might wanna try bending that out.. open door, put a hunk of 4x4 at the top back corner of door... try to close door with 2 hands at the mid bodyline....
THEMCGUIRE
1/2 ton status
bending doors
I know they need work but I was going to wait until after paint. I ripped all the torn up old gaskets out.
After painting I would then put the rubber door gaskets in and do a final adjustment.
Those gaskets look like 1/2" thick on the outside and I am thinking they will hold the doors further out.
Will bending the upper door improve the curve match ?
Also when you say back corner do you mean above the hinges or above the striker ?
I know they need work but I was going to wait until after paint. I ripped all the torn up old gaskets out.
After painting I would then put the rubber door gaskets in and do a final adjustment.
Those gaskets look like 1/2" thick on the outside and I am thinking they will hold the doors further out.
Will bending the upper door improve the curve match ?
Also when you say back corner do you mean above the hinges or above the striker ?
above the striker... you can see from the striker up, it's in.. so a block of wood in the corner, pushing on the middle of the door will bring the door frame out... that's saying the door to qrter gap, in/out, is good from the bodyline down.. kinda hard to tell from the pics... if the whole thing is angled in, your top hinge needs to come out some.. door to hinge bolts...
front to back, wide narrow door. grter/fender gaps... you'll need to start shimming body mounts and bending the rig with a floor jack...
front to back, wide narrow door. grter/fender gaps... you'll need to start shimming body mounts and bending the rig with a floor jack...
