topic answered in high detail here
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707885
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707885
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Xtreme 4x4's Hybrid FRONT 14ff build...
- Thread starter Avery4jc
- Start date
rjpastor
1/2 ton status
I watched the show. First, they set up their shop as a "typical 2 car garage", 20'x20' (bigger than mine) and were using the tools anyone would have in their garage. True; however, they then proceeded to use a bunch of expensive pre-fabbed stuff from vendors, like a complete pre-set chassis. When they did the axle, they cut the axle tubes, put on some super expensive Crane spindles, etc. They didn't address axles or the gears that I saw and I watched the entire episode. I have to admit I wasn't too impressed -- they replaced their mega-buck tools with mega-buck parts. By the time they're finished with the axle, they'll probably spend more than you would for a custom axle from Currie or the others. And no Jessie to boot.
81K5GUY
1/2 ton status
yeah I bet they have more in the parts to do the swap than to buy an aftermarket axle.But I guess they are just trying to think out of the box.I mean how many project rigs can they build before they start repeating themselves.
Ahhhh...nothing like Pirate to bring out the best answers with a bunch of moronic replies.
Mike D
1/2 ton status
I saw it also. I did not hear them mention using reverse cut gears. I was told that you must use reverse cut gears on front differentials.Either this information was edited out or they will be in for a shock when they engage 4WD! Perhaps this error was done on purpose to generate e-mail to the show. Maybe flipping the differential for a drivers side transfer case effectively reverses the gears.
sandawgk5
3/4 ton status
Not true. All GM front axles run on the coast side of the gear and it is not a problem. Hi-pinion axles are the only ones to my knowledge that run on the drive side of the gear.
I run my low pinion 60 (regular cut) in 4WD with it welded and do not break ring a pinions
Dik
A 14 bolt will have the correct rotation when put in front just as installed in back, low pinion.
IMHO, it's stupid as hell. To do it the "cheap" way, you would need an existing front 60 to cut up. You would also need custom inner shafts, as well as some sort of oil seal.
Unless your 60 is so bulletproof elsewhere that you're shattering gear sets regularly, it's a waste of money and ground clearance. Even then, there are better options out there for R&P's that would probably come out less expensive and as Chris said, we've already been there.
IMHO, it's stupid as hell. To do it the "cheap" way, you would need an existing front 60 to cut up. You would also need custom inner shafts, as well as some sort of oil seal.
Unless your 60 is so bulletproof elsewhere that you're shattering gear sets regularly, it's a waste of money and ground clearance. Even then, there are better options out there for R&P's that would probably come out less expensive and as Chris said, we've already been there.
Anyone seen the company that makes hybrid 14-bolts with Rockwell steering outers? I've been searching but I can't find it.
I really enjoy watching that show. It just seems they have gone from making things that are practical and that anyone might be able to do, to making really expensive rigs.
I'm probably like most who watch that show. Nice eye candy but just can't see forking down the kinda cash they have into those rigs, and I'm on a decent engineering salary. I wish they would do those builds and list how much they have spent in parts total for those builds (no cutting corners to make the final bill look cheap). Maybe after they saw the number shock they might realize how silly some of those shows are.
Like the jeep they built nice truck but I would be surprised if anyone could build that for under 30k.
I'm probably like most who watch that show. Nice eye candy but just can't see forking down the kinda cash they have into those rigs, and I'm on a decent engineering salary. I wish they would do those builds and list how much they have spent in parts total for those builds (no cutting corners to make the final bill look cheap). Maybe after they saw the number shock they might realize how silly some of those shows are.
Like the jeep they built nice truck but I would be surprised if anyone could build that for under 30k.
Realistic tools and garage, unrealistic bank account
And that pirate thread was pretty funny
This guy might now a thing or two
http://differentialeng.com/DanaProducts.htm
And that pirate thread was pretty funny
This guy might now a thing or two
http://differentialeng.com/DanaProducts.htm
They've done that before but it's not even close... that sweet little diesel suzuki they built a while back claimed to have $4,500 or something like that into it... heck drivetrain, wiring and wheels/tires alone would come in around there not to mention ALL the accessories and the zuki itself...
super10brss
1/2 ton status
ok, I DVR'ed the show too... but just how many dana 60's are there still floating around? Man these things are like gold in the south. These buggy trucks are so far out there with mega bucks in shocks, custom 4 link bars, heck I bet the seats they use will be $500 or more for the set.... I guess it is a new idea in some regards... and hey we are here talking about it doing what they want us to.....
blazin_blazer
1/2 ton status
so, a frontend, does indeed drive on the coast side, huh? why didn't they do that diff, seems they dropped the ball. why wouldn't reverse cut gears in a lo-pinion, make r&p drive on drive side of gears?
A low pinion diff in the front or a HP diff in rear will drive on the coast side of the gears. Low pinion diffs are stronger in the rear, high pinion diffs are stronger in front applications.
"Reverse cut" gears are actually called reverse spiral gears and those are the gears used in high pinion diffs. You can't put reverse spiral gears into a low pinion housing.
They make standard gears (ride on drive side in a rear axle, ride on coast side in a front axle), and they make reverse cut gears (ride on drive side in a FRONT axle, and coast side in a rear axle).
All the Chevy stuff I know of and most Dodge used the standard gears in the front axles (so they ride on the coast side), while Ford usually had the reverse cut gears for their front axles (also made it a high pinion).
Why? Because it's a lot cheaper to just make one set of gears.
All the Chevy stuff I know of and most Dodge used the standard gears in the front axles (so they ride on the coast side), while Ford usually had the reverse cut gears for their front axles (also made it a high pinion).
Why? Because it's a lot cheaper to just make one set of gears.
romeolimagolf
1/2 ton status
With Dana 60's becoming harder to find and more expensive all the time, I wonder if doing a custom 14 bolt really is the best option. I have seen dana 60's go for as much as $1500. 
And you still need to rebuild it. 14 bolts are everywhere and you can get them pretty cheap or sometimes even free! So, if you get a 14 bolt and the use money you save by not buying a dana 60 to convert it to a front axle, are you coming out ahead? I don't know the anser to that, but it is something to think about. One could easily spend 3 or 4 grand rebuilding a dana 60 with all the latest bling. Knuckes, axles, inner C's", hi steer arms, lockers, gears and such. But with the cheaper initial cost of the 14 bolt, you almost have to come out ahead, don't you?
And you still need to rebuild it. 14 bolts are everywhere and you can get them pretty cheap or sometimes even free! So, if you get a 14 bolt and the use money you save by not buying a dana 60 to convert it to a front axle, are you coming out ahead? I don't know the anser to that, but it is something to think about. One could easily spend 3 or 4 grand rebuilding a dana 60 with all the latest bling. Knuckes, axles, inner C's", hi steer arms, lockers, gears and such. But with the cheaper initial cost of the 14 bolt, you almost have to come out ahead, don't you?
If you go ALL the way through a 60 and put in all new parts, new C's, etc., it really doesn't make any sense to shell out the ~$1k for a 60 in the first place. Just buy a rockcrusher or similar center section and go from there.
But, to answer your question, if you totally bling out whatever axle you have, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg, whether you're building a 60 front, 14 bolt front, 9" front, rockwell front...you might come out a few bucks ahead with one way or the other, but for the type of axle build that you're suggesting, the difference would be trivial in comparison to the overall cost.
But, to answer your question, if you totally bling out whatever axle you have, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg, whether you're building a 60 front, 14 bolt front, 9" front, rockwell front...you might come out a few bucks ahead with one way or the other, but for the type of axle build that you're suggesting, the difference would be trivial in comparison to the overall cost.
The company was 5xfab but I just went to their site and it looks like they either didn't pay their hosting bill or they went out of business:
http://www.5xfab.com
Here's a pirate link about the 14 bolt/ rockwell hybrids:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=611807&highlight=hybrid
