1982 Crewcab towrig

[rjfguitar]

I really like your idea. I would add though that after you invest the money in rebuilding and truboing a 6.2 you could probably pay for a decent 5.9 cummins 12v with a tranny and have more power. A fresh turbo'd 6.2 is still a good idea also.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

you study these things every damn day... along with an hour of english, and hour of math, an hour of science, and an hour of history. a couple weeks ago you were in some high school auto class, and you thought you were ready to take your ASE Master test. now suddenly you get into some diesel class, and you become diesel god overnight. i've been turning wrenches since i was 11 years old, that's right about the time you were getting into preschool. furthermore, i've got 4 years of extensive training in general automotive and light diesel, plus the 13 years that i have been turning wrenches on my own stuff. come back in 10 years, then maybe you can brag about your experience now.

haha you tell me that i know because i know somebody of a friend of a friend that has one then i say heavy equip and now im bragging.... i love it.

No, my rop heavy equip class is right next to the auto teacher and the auto teacher and heavy equip sub for each other... i already passed my ASE test for operating backhoes at 16 years old. I too have been turning wrenches at 11 but i was also welding, ad rivoting on houseboat hulls, working brakes, scheers, drill presses, and making my own skate rails. I said hp is what pulls hills not that i was a diesel god.

My uncle owns his own semi so i do know that. cylinders the size of paint cans. Semis do not hold their speed at all going up hills.... in fact i can remember passing semis with no trailer going up hills at about 45 mph when the speed limit is 65 and that was half way up the hill.

they need the torque to get them moving not hold speed that is called hp...I understand that you say your trying to teach me something but that goes against everything i have ever learned about motors. For example a crf 450 makes tons more torque than a cr 250 but they will be almost completly even when goin up resonably steep hills.... you only need torque at slow speeds. If you were going from a ded stop the 450 would kill the 250 by the top of the hill but i don't know of any highway hills that are like this. Semis get lots of momentum before they hit the hill but by the time they get to the top(up here) they're doin about 30 mph.

 

[beater_k20]

I said hp is what pulls hills not that i was a diesel god.

My uncle owns his own semi so i do know that. cylinders the size of paint cans. Semis do not hold their speed at all going up hills.... in fact i can remember passing semis with no trailer going up hills at about 45 mph when the speed limit is 65 and that was half way up the hill.

they need the torque to get them moving not hold speed that is called hp...I understand that you say your trying to teach me something but that goes against everything i have ever learned about motors. For example a crf 450 makes tons more torque than a cr 250 but they will be almost completly even when goin up resonably steep hills.... you only need torque at slow speeds. If you were going from a ded stop the 450 would kill the 250 but i don't know of any highway hills like that.

can you contradict yourself any more?

torque builds speed, horsepower maintains it. this is why your uncle's semi slows when going up a hill, he's got loads of torque to move the load, but not enough hp to maintain that speed. dirtbikes are irrelevant, and IIRC one of the bikes you mentioned is 2 stroke, while the other is 4 stroke, which is a whole other can of worms.

horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, horsepower is how far you take the wall with you.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

what are you talking about? what you just said is what i've been saying to rjf the whole time...

makes me wonder how well you can read........

I said hp is what pulls hills not that i was a diesel god.

My uncle owns his own semi so i do know that. cylinders the size of paint cans. Semis do not hold their speed at all going up hills.... in fact i can remember passing semis with no trailer going up hills at about 45 mph when the speed limit is 65 and that was half way up the hill.

they need the torque to get them moving not hold speed that is called hp...I understand that you say your trying to teach me something but that goes against everything i have ever learned about motors. For example a crf 450 makes tons more torque than a cr 250 but they will be almost completly even when goin up resonably steep hills.... you only need torque at slow speeds. If you were going from a ded stop the 450 would kill the 250 but i don't know of any highway hills like that.

 

[beater_k20]

I said hp is what pulls hills not that i was a diesel god.

Semis do not hold their speed at all going up hills.... in fact i can remember passing semis with no trailer going up hills at about 45 mph when the speed limit is 65 and that was half way up the hill.

they need the torque to get them moving not hold speed that is called hp...I

heavy diesels are high on torque, and low on hp. that is, they can move alot of weight, but they cannot maintain the speed, hence the slowing on the hills. you said it both correctly and incorrectly.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

if your refering to me saying hp pulls hills i can see how you might think i was off but i was saying if your pulling something and you hit a hill and maintain speed that is hp doing the work.

 

[rjfguitar]

No, my rop heavy equip class is right next to the auto teacher and the auto teacher and heavy equip sub for each other... i already passed my ASE test for operating backhoes at 16 years old. I too have been turning wrenches at 11 but i was also welding, ad rivoting on houseboat hulls, working brakes, scheers, drill presses, and making my own skate rails. I said hp is what pulls hills not that i was a diesel god.

You forgot to add that you also passed a test to work on a NASA space shuttle. So you passed a test to run a back hoe. I DO run a back hoe, a Case 580 Super E to be specific, around the ranch and for higher when I have the work. You think you know a lot because you have read something but what happens in the real world is not always the same as the say it is in the classroom.

My uncle owns his own semi so i do know that. cylinders the size of paint cans. Semis do not hold their speed at all going up hills.... in fact i can remember passing semis with no trailer going up hills at about 45 mph when the speed limit is 65 and that was half way up the hill.

they need the torque to get them moving not hold speed that is called hp...I understand that you say your trying to teach me something but that goes against everything i have ever learned about motors.

You're uncle has my uncle beat, he doesn't own a truck.....but my dad and I do. We have 14 semis and over 20 sets of trailers. I DO work on semi trucks on a regular basis and work around them everyday, not just reading about them. If HP was the answer then CAT, Cummins, and Detroit would build shorter stroked, higher revving engines that could produce tons of HP..they would if that was most important. THey build low RPM, high torque engines because that is what gets them moving and KEEP them moving up hills. Let me narrow this down to an LD pickup for you. A 2005 Dodge 3/4 pickup cummins equipped makes 325HP and 610 ft lbs. It's Gross vehicle weight rating is around 17K IIRC. I would bet that a new '05' can pull almost any hill at the speed limit at full GCWR. Let me show you how much difference the weight vs. power ratio is in a heavy truck. It would take the dodge over 4.5 times the power to pull 80K like how it pulls it's GCWR of about 17K. That pencils out to 1,462.5HP and 2,745 ft lbs of torque to pull a GCWR of 80K like how it does 17K. Maybe now you can see why trucks have a harder time dragging 80K up a hill at full speed.

Another example you ask?
Let me put this in gas engine terms for you. If HP was so important for towing than a 327 out of a Vette would have been used in lots of 3/4 and 1 ton Chevs, but instead they used torqueyer 350's, 400's and 454's that don't produce as much HP but more torque. Think about trains, very long stroked, torquey engines. All you have to do is look around at machinery designed to hold momentum and you will find a lower RPM torque producing engine.

How about the little niper ricers? They make those little engines spew hi RPM HP but no torque to back it. They must be darned good towing engines since they make so much HP vs. torque.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

even beater agrees with me on this one.... hp keeps it moving torque gets it moving... end of story.

Let me put this in gas engine terms for you. If HP was so important for towing than a 327 out of a Vette would have been used in lots of 3/4 and 1 ton Chevs, but instead they used torqueyer 350's, 400's and 454's that don't produce as much HP but more torque.

I have to laugh....bahahahahahahaha.

trains have a top speed of about 50 mph.... who said i read any of this? why do you think i put a higher hp motor in my truck? Mud, sand, and highway hills. I have to say you are the one acting like you know it all when you couldn't be further off. go back and read the post that started all this.... it said you need hp for HILLS not torque. from a stoplight its all torque but on the highway when you hit a hill it doesn't matter how much torque you have.

you are hilarious.... show me where it says hp is better for towing? you are very mixed up. oh man i won't even comment on the ricers post.

Actually my dad worked at NASA for 20 years as a supervisor... no ****. How do you think he knew how to show me all that crap.

 

[beater_k20]

we need a 300 foot tall BS flag...

 

[dirtwarrior17]

who is that directed at?

 

[rjfguitar]

Trains can do more like 100MPH if they wanted to. Ever rode Amtrack? They cruise at 70-80mph. I have seen Freight trains booking it at 60-70MPH with 1/2 a mile of cars. Our ranch is bordered by tracks.

I am serious. If HP is so important for pulling than why didn't GM just use a vette 327 in all there tow rigs? Some even came with 350HP! Thats way more than even a 454 made....so why weren't 327's in 1 tons? Hmm?
You built a motor for more acceleration and holding power. What you don't understand is your 300HP/300ft lbs engine pushing a 5,200lbs K5 is NOTHING vs towing a load where there is MUCH more weight vs. power.

Light vehicles do great with high HP, low torque engines. Once again, thats why 327's were so popular in Vettes. How about the 307 in Camaros? I never saw any long stroke 400's in muscle cars.... could it be because HP is what counts to accelerate fastly in a light vehicle? yes. You say you don't want to even comment on the ricer comment...why not? If HP does all the hill pulling work in a tow rig than why isn't a Vtec turbo'd 4 banger in every HD pickup in America?

Don't dance around my statements and questions....answer them if you think you are so right and know it all.

 

[beater_k20]

probably directed at Barney, the big purple dinosaur who has been spewing crap all over CK5 all night.

i've heard that someone in the classifieds has a clue for sale, i think this would be an awesome investment for you.

 

[84_Chevy_K10]

A 2005 Dodge 3/4 pickup cummins equipped makes 325HP and 610 ft lbs. It's Gross vehicle weight rating is around 17K IIRC. I would bet that a new '05' can pull almost any hill at the speed limit at full GVWR. Let me show you how much difference the weight vs. power ratio is in a heavy truck.

GVWR on my new SRW 1 ton truck is 9,900 lbs. Not sure where you got 17,000 lb GVWR number but it seems to me you're confusing GVWR with GCWR, AKA, Gross Combined Weight Rating. Your little 3/4 ton truck's tires are screaming...they're overloaded by a factor of 2x or more when the weight of the pickup is 17k+.

GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating......for a SINGLE vehicle, not a vehicle combination. Not sure on the 3/4 ton Dodges as I wasn't interested in one but I'd say 8800-9000 is reasonable. The dually is 12,000 lb GVWR. GCWR depends on axle ratio but is typically 21,000-23,000 depending on transmission and axle ratio.

who is that directed at?

You, for running your mouth about something which you have no clue what you're talking about. Likd I said, bring your gasser if you're so sure you're going to prove me something.

Without HP, all the torque in the world is worthless, but the problem is that your gasser only makes good HP at about 4,500 RPM, where my Cummins makes good power from idle until it hits the redline.

Torque without a time constant is pretty much a worthless figure that y'all can use to impress the ladies. You can apply all the force you want, if you can't achieve any useful work accomplished, you've still done nothing. It's like sitting on the pot grunting trying to take a dump and still not delivering the goods.

HP IS what matters. To make it obvious, compare the horsepower of a good Diesel vs. a gasser at 1,000 RPM. Your blown BBC makes about 200 ft lbs @ 1000 RPM. A good Diesel makes at least 600, if not 800-1000 at this point. Since HP = Torque x RPM / 5252, your gasser is making a total of 38 HP. Potentially capable of pulling the load with enough gearing, but not very fast. Your Diesel is making, say, 500 ft lbs (we'll be conservative). It's making 95 HP, more than twice what the gasser makes.

By 1500, your gasser is making 400 ft lbs, and thus 115 HP. The Diesel is making 1000 now, which equals 285 HP., Hmm, pretty big difference there again huh?

Torque by itself IS worthless, yes....but the ability to translate that torque into reasonable horsepower to achieve a useful purpose is necessary. The diesel makes more than 2x as much power at idle, and as soon as the turbo kicks in at 1500-2000, it's making almost 3x the power.

Wonder which one works better for carrying a load?

 

[rjfguitar]

GVWR on my new SRW 1 ton truck is 9,900 lbs. Not sure where you got 17,000 lb GVWR number but it seems to me you're confusing GVWR with GCWR, AKA, Gross Combined Weight Rating. Your little 3/4 ton truck's tires are screaming...they're overloaded by a factor of 2x or more when the weight of the pickup is 17k+.

GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating......for a SINGLE vehicle, not a vehicle combination. Not sure on the 3/4 ton Dodges as I wasn't interested in one but I'd say 8800-9000 is reasonable. The dually is 12,000 lb GVWR. GCWR depends on axle ratio but is typically 21,000-23,000 depending on transmission and axle ratio.

You are 100% correct. I meant GCWR..... I didn't think an LD pickup broke the 20K barrier yet? I thought the ford was at the top currently with 19.2K?

 

[dirtwarrior17]

Beater im about to make you look like a jackass....

 

[AkMudr]

Yet another thread yer pissin in. Dude give it up.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

heavy diesels are high on torque, and low on hp. that is, they can move alot of weight, but they cannot maintain the speed, hence the slowing on the hills.

???????????????? maybe you should buy one of those clue things...... I HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR THE LAST 20 POSTS.

WTF is this? SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS TORQUE IS NOT IMPORTANT IN ANY OF MY POSTS. YOU ACCUSE ME OF DANCING AROUND STATEMENTS THAT YOU CAN'T FIND BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST... I HAVE SAID IT TONS OF TIMES. TORQUE GETS IT MOVIN HP KEEPS IT THERE. THAT ANSWERS YOUR REDICULOUS 327 QUESTION. QUOTE ME PLEASE.... DEAR GOD QUOTE ME.

YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING WITH ME ABOUT SOMETHING I NEVER SAID.

84 chev k10: you obviously didn't read the earlier posts.... all this started because i said a big block will pull hills better than a diesel not that a diesel will get outpulled by a big block from a stop.

 

[84_Chevy_K10]

You are 100% correct. I meant GCWR..... I didn't think an LD pickup broke the 20K barrier yet? I thought the ford was at the top currently with 19.2K?

A 1 ton truck, for the 3rd time, is not an LD pickup. It'd an LD truck, but to say it's an LD pickup is a wrong statement. It is a heavy duty pickup, or a light truck, one or the other, not both. While it's still a pickup and thus a "light" truck, a 1 ton truck is as heavy-duty as pickups come. I don't care if you call a 1/2 ton pickup an LD pickup all day long, but a 1 ton is far from that.

Just double checked the Dodge site. With the Auto trans, GCWR is 21,000 with the 3.73s and 23,000 for the 4.10s. With the old manual they were the same as the auto. The new manual (G-56) that my truck has, is rated for 23,000 lbs with 3.73 gears, probably because its overdrive isn't so deep. 4.10s are no longer offered in 6 speed trucks for obvious reasons.

CTD 3/4 tons have a 9,000 lb GVWR. now that I had to look it up I figured I might as well post the correct figures.

 

[84_Chevy_K10]

???????????????? maybe you should buy one of those clue things......

WTF is this? SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS TORQUE IS NOT IMPORTANT IN ANY OF MY POSTS. YOU ACCUSE ME OF DANCING AROUND STATEMENTS THAT YOU CAN'T FIND BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST... I HAVE SAID IT TONS OF TIMES. TORQUE GETS IT MOVIN HP KEEPS IT THERE. QUOTE ME PLEASE.... DEAR GOD QUOTE ME.

YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING WITH ME ABOUT SOMETHING I NEVER SAID.

Horsepower is nothing more than a mathematical caluclation of torque over time. If you read my posts above you guys are arguing about something really stupid.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:

HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

Horsepower is absolutely essential for towing. Torque without horsepower is worthless, horsepower without torque is impossible.

Peak horsepower is what doesn't matter the slightest bit. Gas engines are peaky and thus can't deliver the torque continously enough over a broad enough RPM range to be useful when towing a heavy load.

 

[AkMudr]

I dunno what I would do with you guys. I would have absolutely no entertainment at work if i couldnt get to this site.