208 doubler project...updated 3-10-06

ryan22re · Dec 11, 2005

i pulled apart my 208 to see how easy/difficult it would be to make a doubler like ive heard that the BW ford guys do and mad rooster ( http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/productreviews/mad_rooster ) does. it doesnt seem that hard, except for the oiling of it. it seems that the planetaries get oil from the slinger here:

im thinking that i will flip the 208 upside down to help make room on the pass side for a front driveshaft. which, i was planning on having the mainshaft machined for oiling to the front bearings, but, with it upside down the slinger wont direct any oil up front.

how critical is the slinger/oiling to the front bearings? i was thinking about filling the half 208 up to about the height of the mainshaft, but i dont think that oil will make its way to the front bearings. furthermore, ive seen the guts of a klune-v and see no where in the drawings about lubrication to the input or output bearings. am i just looking for a reason not to build it?

heres where i plan on cutting it :

outside view:

or just cut it straight across.

what do you guys think? i plan on bolting a 205 to the back of it. i hope to be able to bolt a 400 to 205 t case adapter to the back side to provide another mount for supporting the weight of that heavy 205.
ryan

sled_dog · Dec 11, 2005

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399755

this uses a 231 I believe, and bolts to another one, but still a thought.

ryan22re · Dec 11, 2005

sled_dog said:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399755

this uses a 231 I believe, and bolts to another one, but still a thought.

thats where i got the idea. it doesnt seem that he did anything for the oiling of the thing either. wonder how it holds up on the street.

ryan

jays68yak · Dec 11, 2005

the 241, which i think is way close to the 231, uses an oil pump. I would use one of those so that you dont have to worry about the oilling issues.

sled_dog · Dec 11, 2005

jays68yak said:
the 241, which i think is way close to the 231, uses an oil pump. I would use one of those so that you dont have to worry about the oilling issues.

the oil pump mounts to the back half of the tcase so this setup would remove it.

ryan22re · Dec 11, 2005

since the 208 uses a slinger, i dont think that it would be that hard to reuse it, just have to have the shaft splined in that section to attach it. but i dont think it will channel oil to the planetaries, but im thinking of overfilling it. (in relation to where the fluid level would be stock).

ryan

jason m · Dec 11, 2005

insteed of using ATF could you use something heaver like 50 wheaght gear oil, mix some lucas in there and i would think those planitaries would be fine. the 231 crawler box's dont use any thing different ( i dont think ), jason.

hack500 · Dec 11, 2005

208 doubler!!??? :eek1:

gotta couple 208s and a 241c :ears:

hmm the 208's and the241c I got have all have 32-spline input and output shafts. didn't even dawn on me before - thanks man! :thinking:

5.52:1 in low range. :eek1:

ryan22re · Dec 12, 2005

yeah but i think that the 208 or 241 wouldnt be able to handle the input torque from being multiplied by 2.61 or 2.72. thats why i want to use a 205.

ryan

marv_springer · Dec 12, 2005

ryan22re said:
it seems that the planetaries get oil from the slinger here:

ryan

I think your idea holds alot of potential...! Anytime you can make something good outta the parts everyone is throwing away - it's a good thing..

..!

I've done my share of lookin' at the guts of the 208. I'm using them in an "unconventional" way also... See thread

The 208 does have a pump to lube the planet gears and stuff in the front. It's plastic and mounted on the rear output shaft. Looks kinda like a speedo gear and has a black plastic "shroud" that comes off in your hand when you remove the tailshaft housing. So.. your setup will be eliminating this pump.... :thinking:

I don't think that will be a problem provided that you get a "fill level" up to the bottom edge of the mainshaft. I would also stick w/ ATF as a lubricant.

In my setup, I've clocked the 208's flat and I drive the 1st one bassackwards.... :crazy:

So the pump is still in there, but if anything it is working in reverse. I just filled the cases approximately 1/2 way up - and have yet to have any problems. Now... I will say that this is an "off road only" rig, so I have yet to clock alot of hi-way miles. But I have driven 40-45 mph down several dirt roads....

Good luck.... Hope it works!

Marv

Emmettology 101 · Dec 12, 2005

Hmm this is interesting.. NWF was supposedly looking into something similar to this. I think there was talk about it in one of their posts on Pirate or here. DOnt know if they got anywhere with it though..

I'd like to put a 208 or 241 planetary set in front of my 241.

hack500 · Dec 12, 2005

if you're going to use a 205(with a 32-spline input)... could just remove the tailshaft housing off the 208 and make an adapter to bolt the 205 to the back of that. should've asked before but are the 32-spline input and output shafts the same major/minor diameter? I think they are but I haven't measured 'em yet to find out.

should also connect the 2 adapters together so that the back of the 208 isn't holding the 205 up and you'd still be able to use 1 crossmember, if you so desire.

Emmettology 101 · Dec 12, 2005

hack500 said:
if you're going to use a 205(with a 32-spline input)... could just remove the tailshaft housing off the 208 and make an adapter to bolt the 205 to the back of that. should've asked before but are the 32-spline input and output shafts the same major/minor diameter? I think they are but I haven't measured 'em yet to find out.

should also connect the 2 adapters together so that the back of the 208 isn't holding the 205 up and you'd still be able to use 1 crossmember, if you so desire.

That combo would be really long. Plus you would be leaving the weak chain in the equation. Whereas if you just used the front planetaries, you eliminate the weak chain.

marv_springer · Dec 12, 2005

hack500 said:
should've asked before but are the 32-spline input and output shafts the same major/minor diameter? I think they are but I haven't measured 'em yet to find out.

I have .....

They are the same..

Marv

marv_springer · Dec 12, 2005

Emmettology 101 said:
That combo would be really long.

Agreed..... Using the front half of the 208 would be a much more attractive package.

Emmettology 101 said:
Plus you would be leaving the weak chain in the equation. Whereas if you just used the front planetaries, you eliminate the weak chain.

The chain would be in there.... but you wouldn't be driving thu it.... It only turns the front output of the 208, which you wouldn't be using.

Marv

jays68yak · Dec 12, 2005

marv_springer said:
I have .....

They are the same..

Marv

I can also second this. Had a 241 with a broke output shaft, stuck it in the input for safe keeping. Fit right in.

hack500 · Dec 12, 2005

the extra length really isn't that much to me. just going from memory it seems it'd only be an additional 8-12 inches.

sorry didn't intentionally mean to hijack.

ryan22re · Dec 12, 2005

marv_springer said:
I think your idea holds alot of potential...! Anytime you can make something good outta the parts everyone is throwing away - it's a good thing....!

with all of the 208s around, i figured it be a good idea.

marv_springer said:
The 208 does have a pump to lube the planet gears and stuff in the front. It's plastic and mounted on the rear output shaft. Looks kinda like a speedo gear and has a black plastic "shroud" that comes off in your hand when you remove the tailshaft housing. So.. your setup will be eliminating this pump.... I don't think that will be a problem provided that you get a "fill level" up to the bottom edge of the mainshaft. I would also stick w/ ATF as a lubricant.

i wasnt plan on eliminating the slinger. i was planning on a custom shaft anyway, so why not have it splined and drilled for the slinger/bearing oiling. but i do plan on probably flipping it over to make room for the driveshaft on the pass side. which, wouldnt channel any oil to the planetaries, but would hopefully still oil the bearings. or like you said, fill it up about level with the mainshaft. if i bust it, ill just buy another 208 and start over.

marv_springer said:
Good luck.... Hope it works!

Marv

thanks marv. :bow:

i was planning on getting a couple of 208's are junk, just buy a doubler. ill try to keep up with any progress i make, but i move kinda slow, so bear with me.

ryan

ryan22re · Dec 12, 2005

oh yeah, does anybody have a measurement of the distance from the center of the input shaft to the center of the front output shaft on a 205?

that would help me decide where to cut it and whether or not my 208 will need to be flipped over.

ryan

marv_springer · Dec 12, 2005

10 inches.....

....and I'm not bragging.

BTW, the 208 measures the same.

Marv

208 doubler project...updated 3-10-06

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