305 vs 6.2L diesel

[smalltruckbigcid]

Uhhhhh my N14 cummins is rated at 460 hp and 1650 torque. On the wheel dyno it did 420 hp to the ground, figuring a 20% drivetrain loss thats over 500hp in stock form . Manufacturers numbers are like rectums, they all smell. And if you think GM's manual numbers are bad try a mopar for a while, they'll even overstate compression ratios....we say its 8.2-1 but its really 7.6-1.
George

 

[Emmettology 101]

so because he works for cat he knows all diesels numbers even though he probly works on tractors? If its not 1300 - 1500 then thats false advertising... so what is it then?

I can't remember who made his rig but do a little research and you'll see thats where most semis fall.

Well I am not sure what he works on.. But the last post about semi diesels, he chimed in being pretty knowledgable.....

But why even start comparing pick-up diesels to semis??? You're getting completely off track here as with all you replies to posts. If you want to talk about that, start a new post!!!!!

 

[joez]

your playing with fire on that last sentence...but i don't want to screw this thread up any further than the 3 pages that went off topic... find me a quote. YOur gonna have some trouble unless you go back a couple months.
.

No problem. I wont even leave this thread.

stock numbers on a dmax are 595 ft lbs of torque...

520 with a 6-speed, 605 with an allison, you had two numbers to use and you didnt even get one right.

Actually the TD 6.5's only came in 93 and 94... the rest were upgraded NA.

I think this ones already been taken care of.

add a programmer to a new duramax and you get another 100 hp and 250 ft lbs of torque.... a banks kit and you'll see another 200 hp and 350 ft lbs of torque. once you get into that kind of power your right up there with semis-no sh$t. same torque as em but with another 400 hp more than the semi.

Banks 6-gun, which is just a controller, is 124 hp and 303 ft/lbs of torque straight from the Banks site. Their "Big Hoss" kit, adds 167 hp and 414 ft/lbs of torque. Once again, you had your pick of numbers to use, and you werent even close to any of them. And your nowhere near 400hp more than an OTR truck. Maybee an older day cab, but not a comparable OTR.

semis have around 1300-1500 ft lbs with about 350 hp...my uncle owns his own 2002 big rig and can attest to these numbers.

Semi's come in different power ratings just like everything else, ranging from 250hp to well over 500. Just because your uncle owns ONE doesnt mean squat, maybee his is rated at 350, that doesnt mean everybody elses are. Most OTR trucks are closer to 500 these days.


If you would really like me to keep going, i will, but ill E-mail it since im sure this thread is going to be locked soon. Now i really will stay out of it, i think this thread has gone way past its usefullness and is off topic enough, and im sure ill be getting my warning now.

One last thing, though, if you really want that dyno sheet, go search the diesel forum, its been posted multiple times.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

No problem. I wont even leave this thread.



520 with a 6-speed, 605 with an allison, you had two numbers to use and you didnt even get one right.



I think this ones already been taken care of.



Banks 6-gun, which is just a controller, is 124 hp and 303 ft/lbs of torque straight from the Banks site. Their "Big Hoss" kit, adds 167 hp and 414 ft/lbs of torque. Once again, you had your pick of numbers to use, and you werent even close to any of them. And your nowhere near 400hp more than an OTR truck. Maybee an older day cab, but not a comparable OTR.





Semi's come in different power ratings just like everything else, ranging from 250hp to well over 500. Just because your uncle owns ONE doesnt mean squat, maybee his is rated at 350, that doesnt mean everybody elses are. Most OTR trucks are closer to 500 these days.


If you would really like me to keep going, i will, but ill E-mail it since im sure this thread is going to be locked soon. Now i really will stay out of it, i think this thread has gone way past its usefullness and is off topic enough, and im sure ill be getting my warning now.

One last thing, though, if you really want that dyno sheet, go search the diesel forum, its been posted multiple times.

hahahhaahahaahhaaahahahahah. that was good for a laugh ... thanks man.

last year the d max had 595.

Actually the TD 6.5's only came in 93 and 94... the rest were upgraded NA

.

I like how you took out the part where said at least thats what my manual says. LOL


uh i said a programmer and a banks kit and that was a guess LOL. If i go back and research every guess you made im sure i could convince myself that your full of Sh$t much like you have done.

I said my unlces volvo is 350 hp with 1300 ft lbs... its a semi.... add a programmer and a banks kit and your almost at the same torque with another 400 hp.

can't remember who made his rig but do a little research and you'll see thats where most semis fall.

But why even start comparing pick-up diesels to semis??? You're getting completely off track here as with all you replies to posts. If you want to talk about that, start a new post!!!!!
__________________

I agree im done.

 

[BlueBlazer]

so because he works for cat he knows all diesels numbers even though he probly works on tractors? If its not 1300 - 1500 then thats false advertising... so what is it then?

I can't remember who made his rig but do a little research and you'll see thats where most semis fall.

Yep, I don't know what I am talking about. Go to cat.com or cummins.com if you want to see on highway engine ratings. You don't need to be an insider to get this information. Almost all class 8 trucks are equipped with engines above 1500 ft lbs and some are even over 2000 ft lbs. YOU do the math For future reference, at my place of employment we develop off AND on highway engines, all the way from C7's up to 3618's, so get a clue before you open your yapper next time.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

this is ****ing rediculous... everybody is trippin over each other to be the one who is right.... all i said was...

We all know the new diesels will outpull gassers hands down... add a programmer to a new duramax and you get another 100 hp and 250 ft lbs of torque.... a banks kit and you'll see another 200 hp and 350 ft lbs of torque. once you get into that kind of power your right up there with semis-no sh$t. same torque as em but with another 400 hp more than the semi.

compared to my uncles semi rated at 350 hp and 1300 ft lbs that is not false... go ahead and compare it to all the semis you can find I said most semis fall between 1300-1500 not all of them.

Joez: you expect me to question everything in the gm manual?
get the chip off your shoulder man... if you don't like me thats your problem, don't screw up threads because you want to prove me wrong. I didn't post once for 3 pages so if your gonna say i screwed up this thread its falling on deaf ears.

 

[dyeager535]

semis have around 1300-1500 ft lbs with about 350 hp...my uncle owns his own 2002 big rig and can attest to these numbers.

Not taking sides, I have no interest in this, but it took me all of 1 minute to find this info on the net:

"According to Volvo, the new VT 880 combines a dramatic design with high-output engines, including the new Volvo D16 engine, with ratings up to 625 hp with 2,250 lbs-ft. of torque, the most powerful truck engine available." If you start arguing that those aren't "the norm" then that should have been stated before. You can't make blanket statements and be right even half the time.

I used to be very anti-diesel, but with the economy, longevity and low-end power they provide, I've come around. Especially since I've realized that top-end in a 5500lb truck (if you are lucky) means nothing if I can't get it moving. Swapping FI into a truck to equate to the 6.2L (just in wheeling ability alone) is going to be more expensive and more complex, thats the nature of electronics.

Year for year, size for size, I think it's pretty obvious that diesels are more economical and make better power down low where we typically want it. Even at 74 more cubic inches, the 6.2 still beats the same year 305 in economy, and if carbed 305, the diesel will wheel better. If you start looking at even newer truck engines, the torque output of the diesels is STAGGERING compared to gas engines. Again, compare apples to apples...same years, similar displacement.

Why the discussion went from NA 305 and NA 6.2L to turbos and the like I'm not sure. Nature of a discussion I guess. I've driven a 6.2/TH400/3.08/31" truck, and as long as *I* was the one that shifted the gears, it had decent acceleration. Certainly no worse than my 305/700/3.08/31" truck.

Heck, check out GM's own specs here:

1996

And here:

2004

I see that in 2004 you have no choice in turbo diesel, but still, compare apples to apples. You can't buy, from the dealer, with a warranty, a GM truck with more torque than the diesel for MY 2004. Keeping it simple by comparing GM to GM. I mean it's not even close, with 93 more cubic inches for the gas. Peak torque is MUCH lower, and I guarantee the mileage is MUCH less with the 8.1. (one thing I can't find is EPA MPG ratings for them, apparently its because they aren't required to rate the 6000/8100 for economy, how convenient) GM has had just as much time to develop all of their engines, and the gas lags behind even more now if you ask me.

 

[BlueBlazer]

Your uncles semi is at the very low end of power ratings for OTR trucks produced in the last 5 years or so. Most fall in around 400-500 hp and 1500-1900 ft lbs, not exactly the same as a Dmax, no $hit.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

originally posted by dyeager75: If you start arguing that those aren't "the norm" then that should have been stated before. You can't make blanket statements and be right even half the time.

originally posted by dirtwarrior17: so because he works for cat he knows all diesels numbers even though he probly works on tractors? If its not 1300 - 1500 then thats false advertising... so what is it then? I can't remember who made his rig but do a little research and you'll see thats where most semis fall

I rest my case.

Most fall in around 400-500 hp and 1500-1900 ft lbs, not exactly the same as a Dmax, no $hit.

HUH? wtf are you talking about? uh 1100 is pretty close to 1300.

In 2002 it came as 350 hp and 1300 ft lbs... damn

why do you continue to **** up this thread...

ok im done for good this time.

 

[BlueBlazer]

why do you continue to **** up this thread...

Says the pot to the kettle.

same torque as em but with another 400 hp more than the semi.

1100 and 1300 are not the "same torque". There are very few DMAXes out there with 1100 ft lbs, and like I said, most class 8 trucks are in the 1500-1900 ft lb range, well above the hypothetical Dmax you talk about.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

so your saying all semis are above 1100 ft lbs? man i don't know how it got this far... a programmer and a banks kit and yes the dmax will make 1100. I said as much torque as semis not my uncles semi...

damn im not even going to open this thread anymore.

 

[BlueBlazer]

so your saying all semis are above 1100 ft lbs?

Yes, any class 8 truck made in the last 5-10 years I would say. If there are ones that aren't they are either much older or are used to haul very light loads and probably are not even tandem axle.

 

[mini_mull]

Hey, despite the pi**ing contest, this thread has stoked my interest in diesels, and I have a few questions for you diesel guys. I know nothing about them, so excuse my ignorance. First, where can I find some good GM diesel sites online to educate myself? Second, where do you buy a new or reman 6.2L or 6.5L GM diesel engine? Please clarify what years came with which engine options and what their ratings were/are? Last, are add-ons like the banks sidewinder turbo system and/or the Bullydog Propane Kit street legal, and could you do both together and have an 230+hp, 450+torque engine, or do the numbers not add up that simply?

 

[joez]

HUH? wtf are you talking about? uh 1100 is pretty close to 1300.

In 2002 it came as 350 hp and 1300 ft lbs... damn

I said my unlces volvo is 350 hp with 1300 ft lbs... its a semi.... add a programmer and a banks kit and your almost at the same torque with another 400 hp.

Quick math lesson, i just couldnt stay away because this is easy to do with numbers that you cant argue, and it can be done peacefully.

310+167=477
605+414=1019.

So theres you new possible best gain #'s for a D-max, 477 hp and 1019 ft/lbs of torque. That is on level 6 with the Big Hoss package installed.

Now,
477-350=127. 127 does not equal 400.
1300-1019=281. 1019 does not equal 1300, but it is almost close. If you consider 281 ft/lbs close, that is. It certainly doesnt equal 1500(the other number you gave on your uncles semi, i really should be using that since you are going off high end best gains for a D-max, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt) it isnt even close.

And towing on level 6, you wouldnt make the highway entrance ramp before the motor either defueled or had a meltdown.

This thread keeps going because you keep trying to argue false information, and make general blanket statements so you cant be wrong, and even that is failing. For instance, you say "most" semi's, that sure sounds like you are trying to argue that its the norm, when it isnt, its the bottom end of an OTR truck, and mid range on a new day-cab. I mean, what else does "most" mean to you? Only a few, some, not any, all, everything in existance? According to the dictionary, it means a majority(paraphrased), and if there are more of that than any others(which would be a majority), wouldnt that make it the norm?

Dont make false statements, and dont pull your "facts" out of thin air, and this wont happen to these threads. Just friendly advice, take it as you want.

 

[BlueBlazer]

That was excellent Joe, I swear you must be my long lost younger brother or something.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

Haha..... i don't have to prove you guys wrong... joe did it for me.

Wheres the programmer numbers? I'll do it for you


125 hp 325 ft lbs Edge power programmer

167 hp 417 ft lbs banks hoss system

602 hp 1337

LOL man you forgot about the programmer part or what?

ok i was 100 hp off but that was a guess without doing any research. I didn't think it would turn into you guys trippin over each other trying to prove me wrong. Even so that is 250 hp more with the same torque as my unlces 2002 volvo semi, so i can finally prove my point... keep saying im wrong with your paragraphs about blanket statements, the numbers are in my favor... the evidence to what i've been saying all along is right there...

if this doesn't end it i don't know what will...

 

[joez]

THE 6 GUN IS INCLUDED IN THE BIG HOSS PACKAGE, ITS ALREADY DONE!!!!!!!!!

READ THIS, AND LEARN

So theres you new possible best gain #'s for a D-max, 477 hp and 1019 ft/lbs of torque. That is on level 6 with the Big Hoss package installed.

6 gun tuner on its highest setting, with the big hoss kit installed.

Edit: I even edited out the insult for the mods.

 

[Fierospeeder]

Haha..... i don't have to prove you guys wrong... joe did it for me.

With my university education Joe's post was all about proving you wrong. And i hope joe doesn't get banned for three days because of his post being truthful.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

that is a very weak programmer... use the edge programmer and you get 150 hp all by it selft with all the banks crap... then add the banks crap. I didn't see the part about the six gun. I know no matter what i say your not going to listen but i will anyway.

edge programmer 150 hp 325 ft lbs

banks system with programmer and all the other crap 167 hp and 477 ft lbs

that programmer by itself makes 17 less hp than the entire banks system.

see what im saying? basically we can't know the max gains until somebody buys a banks system and an edge programmer then throws out the six gun programmer.

I still can't beleive that you guys even care about this... the numbers aren't that far off.

so did you get every single torque and hp rating from all the semis on the road and do an average? LMFAO. I quit this is rediculous. MOst semis doesn't mean in the last 5-10 years it means most semis as in whatever is on the street. suggesting its my fault that we are at this point is rediculous. I made a simple statement about how a programmer and a banks kit puts the dmax up with the semis and you went researched it all down to the last bit on something that has absolutly nothing to do with this post.

 

[mini_mull]

Hey, despite the pi**ing contest, this thread has stoked my interest in diesels, and I have a few questions for you diesel guys. I know nothing about them, so excuse my ignorance. First, where can I find some good GM diesel sites online to educate myself? Second, where do you buy a new or reman 6.2L or 6.5L GM diesel engine? Please clarify what years came with which engine options and what their ratings were/are? Last, are add-ons like the banks sidewinder turbo system and/or the Bullydog Propane Kit street legal, and could you do both together and have an 230+hp, 450+torque engine, or do the numbers not add up that simply?

OK, you guys stink. I know you know the answers to these ?s and they are way more on subject than talking about semis and cummins, so could someone take one step back from bitting each others heads off and answer some on subject questions? I know it's more fun just to point out how stupid you think other people are, but I think everyone gets the point and can sort out who knows their stuff and who doesn't. So come on, let's talk about the 6.2L since that's half of what the original post was about, OK.