How can you tell the differance between a 350 and a 454 TBI injector?
Thanks, Ed
Thanks, Ed
CK5
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350/454 TBI Injectors
- Thread starter pomai
- Start date
There is a number on the top side where the terminals are. Get that number then do a search. Post the number when you find it and i'll see if i can get info on it for you. There are several different numbers for a 454 injector.
The 454 injectors i have are 5235231 and i had www.witchhunter.com clean and flow test them and they flowed 98 lb/hr
The 454 injectors i have are 5235231 and i had www.witchhunter.com clean and flow test them and they flowed 98 lb/hr
I purchased 2, 454 injectors from www.tbiparts.com (Sean from SPR Performance) to install into my 350 TBI bored out 2” by extreme-fi from ebay, but I was having issues with it and suspected a vacuum leak.
Then I purchased a complete 454 TBI with the larger foot print IAC valve passage way from www.tbiparts.com that Sean had installed the correct linkage for the TV cable.
Flooding, and lots of it, well one of the injectors passenger side, was spitting out large amounts of fuel. So I took out the 454 injectors from the 350 tbi and switched them with the ones in the 454 tbi, and WOW the motor started write up and idled so nicely.
I have the 2 flow sheets from Witch Hunter Performance for the injectors that came with the 454 tbi.
On the flow sheet, Witch Hunter identifies the injector part #’s as 17084304, but know were on the injectors is this number.
When I clicked on the (our cleaning process) on there web site, this is what it said
“The injectors are first visually inspected then checked for coil winding shorts or opens. A number is now engraved on them”
I found the engraved numbers X136 and X128, I know were the numbers 17084304 should be, On the top side were the terminals are, but there is none. I’m going to send these injectors back to them to check and re clean if need be.
That top side piece, is this a new piece they install when they rebuild them?
Could this be why there is no # 17084304 on that top side piece?
But I wanted to know, with out these numbers how would I know if these were actually 454 injectors?
WitchHunter Performance flow sheet
Injector part # (17084304)
Resistance (1.1)
Leak test (pass)
Spray pattern (Good)
Static flow (285)
Pulsed flow cc @2500rpm (112)
Cc/min @ 1 bar (855)
And a graph (Pulsed Flow Test @ 2500 rpm) about (850)
But know were showing 98 lb/hr like yours does.
dave w
1/2 ton status
I have used the services of WitchHunter for cleaning 454 injectors. I think the OEM number are removed by WitchHunter as part of the cleaning service. I've purchased remanufactured 350 TBI injectors from a local auto parts store, and the OEM numbers were also removed from the 350 TBI injectors. I really don't understand why injector cleaning service companies would remove the OEM numbers?
I've bench flow tested TPI injectors using one side of a TPI fuel rail with a return line and pressure regulator, stop watch, fuel pressure gauge, and a cc scale measuring cup. I also made an electrical harness for one TPI injector connected to a switch from a battery to turn on / off the TPI injector. I did one injector at a time. I used my EFI fuel cell to pressure the TPI fuel rail. I'm not sure how to make a TBI injector test bench, but maybe placing the whole TBI unit on top of some kind of cc scale measuring cup with the throttle wide open would work?
The pic shows my EFI fuel cell.
dave w
I've bench flow tested TPI injectors using one side of a TPI fuel rail with a return line and pressure regulator, stop watch, fuel pressure gauge, and a cc scale measuring cup. I also made an electrical harness for one TPI injector connected to a switch from a battery to turn on / off the TPI injector. I did one injector at a time. I used my EFI fuel cell to pressure the TPI fuel rail. I'm not sure how to make a TBI injector test bench, but maybe placing the whole TBI unit on top of some kind of cc scale measuring cup with the throttle wide open would work?
The pic shows my EFI fuel cell.
dave w
I had Witchhunter clean and flow test my 454 injectors and the OEM number 5235231 is still visible on the top as it was before (you needed a magnifying glass to see it before and after). They DO NOT take any portion of the injector apart, they are simply cleaned in an ultrasonic machine then flow tested.
Is there a GM before the numbers?
I’m going to get a magnifying glass, I think I see them.
Yes, i believe mine says GM 5235231 RPD
Those numbers are very lightly stamped or scribed by GM. so any kind of media blasting, sanding, original had two color dabs of paint etc... they can be VERY hard to read!
One of the injectors that I took out of the 454 TBI have the number GM 5234395*RPD, with X136 engraved on it. I goggled this injector number, and found that this injector is from a 1982-1986 Celebrity 2.5L 4 Cyl TBI
The other injector has GM 5235203*RPD with X128 engraved on it, I goggled this injector number, and found this injector to be from a 1985 Impala 4.3 6 Cyl.
I have 2 WitchHunter Performance Flow sheets that accompanied the 454 TBI. One flow sheet identifies one injector with there engraved X128 on it, as part # 17084304
The other flow sheet identifies the second injector with there engraved X136 as part #17084304.
When I clicked on the (our cleaning process) from there web site, this is what it said “The injectors are first visually inspected then checked for coil winding shorts or opens. A number is now engraved on them”
(1) Is there any way that these injectors can possibly be 454 injectors with the
GM 5234395*RPD & GM 5235203 *RPD on them?
(2)Are you sure that the TBI injectors are not disassembled? WitchHunter’s web site says “The parts are now disassembled by removing the pintle cap, o-rings, filters, and spacers. Now back to the parts washer to clean the areas now exposed”
I’m thinking that the disassembled injectors are done to other types of injectors and not the TBI’s. I’m just trying to cover all the bases, making sure that there could not be some kind of mistake on parts being accidentally switched during the disassembly process.
Do you remember the problems I was having with flooding?
(3) Could theses injector that are from 4 and 6 cylinder cars be the reason they were flooding the 454 TBI, Possibly unable to handle the 18 psi.?
Thank you,
Ed
This is the response I got from the person I purchased the 454 TBI from.
Those are remanufactured injectors from AUS injection out of Arizona. They use existing external parts that are in good condition and use the internal parts from the 454 injectors. The casting numbers on the top of the injectors are NOT what is on the inside of the injector. That is why I have WitchHunter engrave the injector with a number and the flow sheet will correspond with that number. Your injectors are true 454 17084304 injectors internally as shown by the flow testing. I do not sell the lower flowing injectors. Also, on the bottom of the injector AUS Injections stamps their part number which will coincide with 17084304 injectors. Sorry for the confusion.
You should see a number 31 stamped on the bottom of the injector which designates it as a 454 injector 80-90lb.
Those are remanufactured injectors from AUS injection out of Arizona. They use existing external parts that are in good condition and use the internal parts from the 454 injectors. The casting numbers on the top of the injectors are NOT what is on the inside of the injector. That is why I have WitchHunter engrave the injector with a number and the flow sheet will correspond with that number. Your injectors are true 454 17084304 injectors internally as shown by the flow testing. I do not sell the lower flowing injectors. Also, on the bottom of the injector AUS Injections stamps their part number which will coincide with 17084304 injectors. Sorry for the confusion.
You should see a number 31 stamped on the bottom of the injector which designates it as a 454 injector 80-90lb.
All of those parts are external. You cannot take the injectors apart. I would not trust the company that sold you the injectors. Even IF someone was able to take them apart WHY would someone swap internal parts and put them in a different housing? It's not like the housing can get damaged in any way with ordinary use. If you had a 454 injector just clean/rebuild and sell it with the CORRECT CORRESPONDING GM injector number on it.
This is there response, what do you think?
I know it’s confusing when you see the casting numbers of different injectors on the tops. These are 100% 80-90lb injectors. When they remanufacture they use the good core parts from all TBI injectors, but the “guts” of #31 are 80-90lb. The flow rates show that. An 80-90lb injector should flow anywhere from 820cc/min to 900cc/min at 14.7psi
You should see a number 31 stamped on the bottom of the injector which designates it as a 454 injector 80-90lb.
I purchase them from AUS Injection and they send them to me. I then send them to WitchHunter for flow-testing the way that I need it to be and he gives me the flow sheets to prove their flow-rates. Aus Injection does not supply flow-sheets
I went on AUS Injection's web site, www.ausinjection.com
TBI Injectors :
Disassembled and recalibrated
(An alternate core or a new part substitutes all part numbers that are known to have external leaking problems or intermittent flow due to poor original design.)
dave w
1/2 ton status
In God I trust, with everything else ... I measure.
dave w
dave w
If you read the entire page on "The Remanufacturing Process" they talk about back flushing and reverse flow pressure cleaning.
This would not need to be done IF they were able to disassemble the injector (which they can't). Take it for what it is but they are feeding you and everyone else a line of crap.
You can make an injector flow more fuel by increasing the PSI or by a greater injector dwell time in the chip burn (up to the point of reaching the duty cycle of the injector). WhitchHunter tests TBI injectors at 20 PSI so you would have to do the math to figure out what the flow rate is at the lower pressure you will be running. In my case @ 20 PSI my injectors flow 1055cc/min or basically 100 lb/hr.
Here is a conversion calculator from WitchHunters website if you haven't seen it before. http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4
This would not need to be done IF they were able to disassemble the injector (which they can't). Take it for what it is but they are feeding you and everyone else a line of crap.
You can make an injector flow more fuel by increasing the PSI or by a greater injector dwell time in the chip burn (up to the point of reaching the duty cycle of the injector). WhitchHunter tests TBI injectors at 20 PSI so you would have to do the math to figure out what the flow rate is at the lower pressure you will be running. In my case @ 20 PSI my injectors flow 1055cc/min or basically 100 lb/hr.
Here is a conversion calculator from WitchHunters website if you haven't seen it before. http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4
Last edited:
Did you see this:
TBI Injectors :
Disassembled and recalibrated
(An alternate core or a new part substitutes all part numbers that are known to have external leaking problems or intermittent flow due to poor original design.)
TBI Injectors :
Disassembled and recalibrated
(An alternate core or a new part substitutes all part numbers that are known to have external leaking problems or intermittent flow due to poor original design.)
I seen that. That company is contradicting itself in many areas.
I’m going to call them tomorrow to find out if they do in fact take the TBI injectors apart. That is what the person that I bought the injectors from is saying.
Those are remanufactured injectors from AUS injection out of Arizona. They use existing external parts that are in good condition and use the internal parts from the 454 injectors. The casting numbers on the top of the injectors are NOT what is on the inside of the injector. That is why I have WitchHunter engrave the injector with a number and the flow sheet will correspond with that number. Your injectors are true 454 17084304 injectors internally as shown by the flow testing. I do not sell the lower flowing injectors. Also, on the bottom of the injector AUS Injections stamps their part number which will coincide with 17084304 injectors. Sorry for the confusion.
Could you help me in understanding some terminology on injectors?
What is pulsed flow cc @ 25000 rpm?
What is static flow?
Cc/min @ 1bar?
I don’t know how to use or understand the conversion calculator.
The flow sheets for my injectors are bellow.
WitchHunter Performance flow sheet
Injector part # (17084304)
Resistance (1.1)
Leak test (pass)
Spray pattern (Good)
Static flow (285)
Pulsed flow cc @2500rpm (112)
Cc/min @ 1 bar (855)
And a graph (Pulsed Flow Test @ 2500 rpm) about (850)
But know were showing 98 lb/hr like yours does.
Those are remanufactured injectors from AUS injection out of Arizona. They use existing external parts that are in good condition and use the internal parts from the 454 injectors. The casting numbers on the top of the injectors are NOT what is on the inside of the injector. That is why I have WitchHunter engrave the injector with a number and the flow sheet will correspond with that number. Your injectors are true 454 17084304 injectors internally as shown by the flow testing. I do not sell the lower flowing injectors. Also, on the bottom of the injector AUS Injections stamps their part number which will coincide with 17084304 injectors. Sorry for the confusion.
Could you help me in understanding some terminology on injectors?
What is pulsed flow cc @ 25000 rpm?
What is static flow?
Cc/min @ 1bar?
I don’t know how to use or understand the conversion calculator.
The flow sheets for my injectors are bellow.
WitchHunter Performance flow sheet
Injector part # (17084304)
Resistance (1.1)
Leak test (pass)
Spray pattern (Good)
Static flow (285)
Pulsed flow cc @2500rpm (112)
Cc/min @ 1 bar (855)
And a graph (Pulsed Flow Test @ 2500 rpm) about (850)
But know were showing 98 lb/hr like yours does.
855cc/min is about 81 lb/hr injector.
When you call the AUS company ask them to show you pictures of a TBI injector taken apart. I'll bet they can't provide or won't provide a pic for you.
When you call the AUS company ask them to show you pictures of a TBI injector taken apart. I'll bet they can't provide or won't provide a pic for you.
could you tell me what lb/hr stand for?
pounds per hour, that is how injectors are sized/rated.
