4.8L to 6.0L

[USSkoval]

On the newer GM trucks and vans (like post 2010 or somewhere in there) with the VVT engines, is the L96 6.0 a direct swap from the L20 4.8?

Our '13 Savana's little 4.8L gave up the ghost today. I've always felt it was underpowered, so if the 6.0L that was also offered that year is a diect swap, I'd like to go that route. And if so, what's the chances it will run ok with no major driveability issues if I don't get it tuned?

 

[Cucv_M1008]

If your 4.8 was vvt and your 6.0 is vvt ,I think you just have to update the tune to have it read 6.0 instead of 4.8, I think. if you dont get it tuned your 6.0 wont be happy running like a 4.8.

 

[ZooMad75]

On the newer GM trucks and vans (like post 2010 or somewhere in there) with the VVT engines, is the L96 6.0 a direct swap from the L20 4.8?

Our '13 Savana's little 4.8L gave up the ghost today. I've always felt it was underpowered, so if the 6.0L that was also offered that year is a diect swap, I'd like to go that route. And if so, what's the chances it will run ok with no major driveability issues if I don't get it tuned?

Physically it’s going to bolt in. Like bolt for bolt.

Using Google to refresh my memory, both the 4.8 and 6.0 did have vvt and did not have afm. So from a harness perspective, it should work.

While 6.0 should run on the 4.8 tune its going to be woefully under fueled. I’m sure the timing map is off too. I would plan on investing in a proper tune if you go through the effort of the swap.

 

[USSkoval]

Physically it’s going to bolt in. Like bolt for bolt.

Using Google to refresh my memory, both the 4.8 and 6.0 did have vvt and did not have afm. So from a harness perspective, it should work.

While 6.0 should run on the 4.8 tune its going to be woefully under fueled. I’m sure the timing map is off too. I would plan on investing in a proper tune if you go through the effort of the swap.

Even with the 6.0 injectors that are a higher (assuming) lb/hr rating?

Really my big issue with tuning will be my lack of time. I've got a lot on my plate already and it's going to be hard to find time for another engine swap. And getting it done all in one shot. Let's say I do manage to get it swapped in a weekend, it might be a few weeks before I could take it to have tuned. If the wife can potentially drive it until I get back home again, that would make things a lot easier.

 

[Blue85]

Typically, this is done using a segment swap. Copy the file from your PCM, paste in the whole 6.0 section from a repo and reflash. However, you should look up the injectors. If the 6.0 injectors are like 25% bigger, then running the original tune would be close enough at least to get started. That's assuming they use the same MAF. If you were getting MAF and injectors with the donor, it would make sense to just run them. The 6.0 tune should have the correct parameters for the knock sensors that came on the 6.0.

What transmission does it have? I don't know the numbers, but I suspect there are differences in the shift points depending on which engine was in front of it. They may also use different torque converters. That doesn't mean you have to change the converter, but there are slip parameters it looks for you might have to tweak. Of course, once you have the tune file open, there's more stuff that can be done.

Is everybody sure the sensors are all the same (crank, cam, knock, injector, etc.)? What were transition years for some of this?

 

[Blue85]

A professional tuner could probably make these changes for you just based on your parts list. If you didn't want to buy the tuning tool, you could mail the PCM while you're doing the swap.

 

[USSkoval]

Typically, this is done using a segment swap. Copy the file from your PCM, paste in the whole 6.0 section from a repo and reflash. However, you should look up the injectors. If the 6.0 injectors are like 25% bigger, then running the original tune would be close enough at least to get started. That's assuming they use the same MAF. If you were getting MAF and injectors with the donor, it would make sense to just run them. The 6.0 tune should have the correct parameters for the knock sensors that came on the 6.0.

What transmission does it have? I don't know the numbers, but I suspect there are differences in the shift points depending on which engine was in front of it. They may also use different torque converters. That doesn't mean you have to change the converter, but there are slip parameters it looks for you might have to tweak. Of course, once you have the tune file open, there's more stuff that can be done.

Is everybody sure the sensors are all the same (crank, cam, knock, injector, etc.)? What were transition years for some of this?

The L96 and L20 were both available in the vans, in the same years. It was either them or the 6.6 diesel. All used the 6L90, at least in my van's year.

I didn't think about the shift tuning. Although that's something I've wanted to have tuned for years anyway. The stock tuning is so damn lazy, along with the throttle response.

There's a reputable dyno tune shop about 30 minutes from me. I don't know if they mess around with shift tuning though, I've never personally dealt with them.

 

[ktmoutfront]

2010 is newer? That's 15 years old. Almost a classic.

I'm no help as I have only done swaps into other vehicles that needed tunes started over.
I do not see a need to tune the transmission in this situation to daily drive it. Torque converter is transmission specific. Should bolt up. I would think it will run "OK" as a direct swap. For optimum drivability, it needs tuned.

 

[Blue85]

Who's ever driven a stock 6L80/90 that didn't need a tune?

 

[USSkoval]

2010 is newer? That's 15 years old. Almost a classic.

I'm no help as I have only done swaps into other vehicles that needed tunes started over.
I do not see a need to tune the transmission in this situation to daily drive it. Torque converter is transmission specific. Should bolt up. I would think it will run "OK" as a direct swap. For optimum drivability, it needs tuned.

Lol, it's new for me. Ive got a few '13 vans, the next newest is a '00 van and '00 Burb. Everything else is early 90's or older.

 

[ZooMad75]

The L96 and L20 were both available in the vans, in the same years. It was either them or the 6.6 diesel. All used the 6L90, at least in my van's year.

I didn't think about the shift tuning. Although that's something I've wanted to have tuned for years anyway. The stock tuning is so damn lazy, along with the throttle response.

There's a reputable dyno tune shop about 30 minutes from me. I don't know if they mess around with shift tuning though, I've never personally dealt with them.

One would have to see if the torque converter on the 4.8 is the same on the 6.0 vans. Typically in the past the smaller engines did have a different stall point than the larger ones but I don’t know if they did in 2013. It’s one of the few things that you can’t tweak since it’s set mechanically within the unit. So if they did have different ones by engine it may behave differently if you leave it in. If I can get into the GM parts catalog tonight at my hotel I’ll take a look.

As far as the tune goes, you may reach out to Howell as they could flash a pcm to your specs and send your 4.8 pcm in as a core. They would also one able to shed some light on the trans tune and give some options there.

 

[BoondocK5]

Even with the 6.0 injectors that are a higher (assuming) lb/hr rating?

Really my big issue with tuning will be my lack of time. I've got a lot on my plate already and it's going to be hard to find time for another engine swap. And getting it done all in one shot. Let's say I do manage to get it swapped in a weekend, it might be a few weeks before I could take it to have tuned. If the wife can potentially drive it until I get back home again, that would make things a lot easier.

I used a 6.0 harness to wire my 8.1. Also, used an early 6.0 ECM, LT1SWAP.com charged me $75 to reprogram it, even with the manual throttle/TPS mods.
Had it back to me in 2 weeks.
I used to hear the horror stories of guys with 4.8’s renting U-hauls with a 6.0 and swapping the motors over a weekend. Unknown if it’s true

 

[ZooMad75]

I was able to hop into the GM parts catalog. The 6 speed trans in the 2500 G vans did use the same part number torque converter on the v8’s. So the trans should be ok swapping to a 6.0.

 

[USSkoval]

I was able to hop into the GM parts catalog. The 6 speed trans in the 2500 G vans did use the same part number torque converter on the v8’s. So the trans should be ok swapping to a 6.0.

Thanks.

I just realized that I had left out pertinent information in my first post. Our van is a '13 3500 van.

In other news, I got back home from Wisconsin on Thursday evening. The van had been parked where the rollback had dropped it off. My son and wife had not started it since it had lost oil pressure and became noticeably noisy. I started the van and it took a couple seconds to show oil pressure. But it did have oil pressure again and there was only a very minor amount of clatter. I gave it several revs and I didn't hear any type of abnormal noise.

Maybe it's not junk just yet? It has 230k on it, mostly city and rural miles. I dunno. I still think replacing it is the better option. Especially since I thought it was underpowered to begin with.

 

[Wes Harden]

O ring in pick up tube?