4 or 5 point safety harnesses-necessary?

[blowedupmotor87]

79BRUISER, I'm glad you're allright! Judging from the pics, looks like similar terrain to what I'll be on, thanks for the first hand experience sharing! Edit: just noticed you're from Indiana! Ive got family in Bedford, I've been wanting to wheel at Badlands in Attica, have you been out there?

On the topic of tube doors, I do plan on running them (forgot the name, the ones in the Vendor section, a couple guys on here have them), I shoulda specified that I meant no stock doors.

 

[79BRUISER]

We were at Haspin acres in Laurel, IN this morning. Its closer than attica.

I havent been to attica for several years. It was nice when we were there b4 but couldnt tell you about now. I remember alot of p-gravel type dunes.

Also There is a state run park called Redbird. I hear its a really nice place. Its probably closer to Bedford than the Badlands

Glad to hear your running tube doors. I hadn't planned on running them b4 this morning. Live and learn.

 

[70jimmy]

I like the racing seats with the straps that go thru the seat, really hold you in, plus the seat is contoured for a body so side to side movement is cut down. I have felt the lap belt try to ride up due to the shoulder straps being connected and the crotch strap helps keep it where it belongs. If it doesn't ride up you have a lot less chance of submarining and injuring ribs or worse internal organs as was mentioned earlier.

Someone mentioned the give of a stock seatbelt. If I understand correctly you are probably talking about the split second it takes for the ratcheting mechanism to lock which allows you to go forward before kicking in. It is good or not, does it lessen impact? In a crash you have basically at least 3 impacts. 1. Vehicle collides with something and depending on what it hits, comes to a sudden stop. 2. Your body continues moving until acted upon by some outside force such as seatbelts, dash board, steering wheel, or windshield. Now your body has a rapid slowdown or stop. 3. Your internal organs move inside your body until they stop by colliding with other organs, bones, skin etc.

In a crash the further your body moves before stopping the more energy or speed your internal organs can have stored so the more force they collide with. Best way I can explain it is: Take your fist and place it against someones body, now punch or push as hard as you can. You may be able to move the person or even put them off thier feet. Now imagine the same thing except this time start with your fist about one foot away from their body and punch as hard as you can. Which way would you rather be hit? Which way causes more damage or injury. The first is like having harnesses on properly adjusted. The second is like having them loose or just one shoulder belt that maybe takes a split second to activate the locking mechanism on the belt.

Now just the lap belt means your waise area is dramatically slowed or stopped and your head, neck, and chest race toward the steering wheel.

I will stick with my harnesses and will start wearing my shoulder straps more often.

I know I'm biased

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Over the years, I've seen many trucks in Moab with racing belts and God knows how many points. Yet, I haven't seen very many people actually using those belts as if they were strapped in a race car. Having no freedom to move the shoulders seems to become an inconvenience rather quickly on the trail. If you're only wearing the lap belt anyway, why not use the stock 3-point?

The argument against the stock belts is that your roll may be slow enough (at least initially) that the belt doesn't lock up.

Good point on the seats

 

[miniwally]

Having been over in both a regular seat belt system, a four point system and only wearing the lap belts I guess I have a bit of knowledge here.

Stock seat belst are fine. The work, work well and overall keep you contained. You could spill out of the shoulder portion I guess but not likely. This is with stock type seats.

I have a four point system in the buggy with PRP racing seats. The seats hold in side to side very well by themselves. I usually only wear the lap belt. Most of the rolls I have done in the Buggy were with the lap belt only. I think it is fine that way.
I took a 1 3/4 roll over a few years back and both the wife and I were still in the seats in a good postion when things stopped rolling.
I would say that I use the lap only option 95% of the time while "on the trail".

However. Everytime I am attempting something "hard" on the trail, like the waterfall in Upper Helldorado, the big hottub in Moab etc. I ALWAYS wear the four points. The problem with being on the four points is that when I tighten the belts like they should be I can't reach the kill switch or the dash. So I have to leave them a bit loose so I can move to get to the switches. The one time I went on my side with the four points on I was very secure in the seat and there was no way I was going to be leaving that seat with out life threating injuries.

BTW the fifth/sixth point is more to keep the lap belt from rising up on your body than to keep you from going out the bottom of the seat. I have thought about installing the fifth point in mine as I can make the lap belt raise to far up on my torso with the shoulder belts tight.

If I was looking at what to do I would go to a five point system with a good quality suspension seat. You might only wear the lap belt but having the full system is good.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

What would y'all recommend as to good seats/harnesses? IDK if I can afford to jump right up to cage/seats/harnesses though, too much $! I can't weld or anything so, all this would be fab shop work, I have a feeling that'll be many $! Seems like about $5-6K to get set up (full cage, front buckets, rear 2 person bench (like Mastercraft Rubicon setup, all 5 point harnesses, what do y'all think of that kind of setup?). Wow! Pricey, IDK if I'd ever get it on the road at that kind of price! Am I way off on my price estimate? High/low/aboiut right? I originally really kinda wanted to keep it mild and OEM-esque looking but, if I want to be safe, it's sounding like that original idea is kinda out of the question. Hmm, well, looks like I am going to be spending a bundle more $, I guess that's no real surprise on a trail toy though.

 

[miniwally]

Put stock buckets in and add a four point system to that for now. Then buy front seats in a while and then a back seat. I have seen a few guys put the four points in for trail use and leave the stock seat belt for the street.

if the seat belts are good enough for the street they have to be good enough for mild fourwheeling.

I just got a set of PRP seats. Low back buckets normal width but extra tall. $550 shipped to CO.
I use a low back bucket with a seperate head rest. I am tall in the torso so I can't get a high back tall enough to have the head rest correctly postitioned on my head.

 

[cbbr]

The argument against the stock belts is that your roll may be slow enough (at least initially) that the belt doesn't lock up.

Good point on the seats

I can tell you for a fact that my stock belt held me in tight when I flopped mine.

 

[muddermilitia]

79BRUISER, I'm glad you're allright! Judging from the pics, looks like similar terrain to what I'll be on, thanks for the first hand experience sharing! Edit: just noticed you're from Indiana! Ive got family in Bedford, I've been wanting to wheel at Badlands in Attica, have you been out there?

On the topic of tube doors, I do plan on running them (forgot the name, the ones in the Vendor section, a couple guys on here have them), I shoulda specified that I meant no stock doors.

I've wheeled badlands a bunch of times, plenty of opportunitys for rollovers there. I've been on three wheels several times but never rolled over......yet

 

[6.2Blazer]

If your lap belts are "riding up" on you because of the shoulder straps, then I can tell you for certain that you did not put them on correctly...either you don't have the lap belts mounted at the correct angle (the floor mounts are too far back), or you simply didn't tighten the 4-point correctly.

When tightening up a 4-point you always leave the shoulder straps very loose and tighten up the lap belts, then tighten up the shoulder harness. As long as the lap belts were installed halfway correctly and tightened properly, there is absolutely no way they should ride up on you.

The idea that a stock 3-point belt system "absorbs" any impact is not a legitimate argument. While a stock belt may take a split second to lock, the fact is it may move a fraction of an inch before suddenly and positively locking...it's not like a shock absorber which gradually slows down the impact. In fact in a very hard frontal any movement of the upper body before being suddenly stopped would make the situation worse as you now have to stop the momentum of the body also.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

I've wheeled badlands a bunch of times, plenty of opportunitys for rollovers there. I've been on three wheels several times but never rolled over......yet

Cool, whenever I get the Jimmy together and head up there, I'll let ya know (it's gonna be a long time though).

The idea that a stock 3-point belt system "absorbs" any impact is not a legitimate argument. While a stock belt may take a split second to lock, the fact is it may move a fraction of an inch before suddenly and positively locking...it's not like a shock absorber which gradually slows down the impact. In fact in a very hard frontal any movement of the upper body before being suddenly stopped would make the situation worse as you now have to stop the momentum of the body also.

Gotcha! Thanks, I didn't know if it would make a difference or not!