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4 seat buggy, best approach...

On further thought, I think this might not work out. When a sway bar is used just to *help* control body roll with coil-overs, the rate is fairly low since it's just helping the compressing coil by transferring some "pull" to the other side. But with the only supporting force centered, having no effect on the stuffing side other than as a fulcrum, I think the rate required to control body roll would effectively eliminate articulation as well. In other words, with outboard coil-overs, the weight of the vehicle is compressing that side, with the low rate sway bar transferring only a small amount to pull on the other side. With dependence on the sway bar for all lateral stability, stuffing one tire might effectively lift the other tire, eliminating articulation.

I’m not yet convinced either way. I can’t really think of an effective (and simple) way to model it mathematically or mechanically, and I think I've reached the limits of my intuitive exploration. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I’m hoping one of the many smarter folks here can help me understand this more clearly…
 
LOL, we crossed while posting. I think the same thing that's eating at you was getting me too.

Yeah, I realize the shocks need to be outboard, but the coil-over expense is avoided, and the height could be adjusted with only the airbag pressure or hydraulic rig you mentioned.

Never seen a Scorpion in person, and could never figure out how it worked just looking at the magazine pics. As I recall, the airbags were horizontally mounted mid-ship and cantilevered along with some sort of lever rig that caused wheels on opposite corners to move up and down together equally.
 
As for the scorpion set up. It used 2 bags in the front and one in the rear. It did not use conventional links at all. IIRC the axles were actually located with big horseshoe hoops solidly welded to the axle tubes. It used a spherical ball type rotary hinge in the center of each of the horseshoe hoops (one for each of corse). The front bags were located vertically on the outter edge of the hoops near the cab (similar to an up line 4 link). This allowed a relatively small bag to creat an abundance of travel. (it did not take into account d-shaft angle and would regularly blow/bind them up front). The rear was similar using a rotary joint but only a single bag mounted on the center of the hourseshoe hoop. The hoop had a bridge towards the cab side that mounted the air bag horizontally. Again leverage was used to creat a lot of output movement with little input.

As for your buggy russ, I think a bag system of some sort (in addistion to coils) could be put to great use as an sway inhibitor. Use the little 8" overload bags about 9" from the frame side upper link mount to "stiffin" up the feeling of the spring rate for higher speeds, off camber and such. Using 4 bags and 4 valves would allow individual adjustment over each corner, and aid in side hills, extreme up/down hill as well as passenger/cargo location and weight. I have never been a fan of manually control only suspensions (I have seen many in shops never on the trail), I do like manual adjustmet for assisting.
 
I don't see anything wrong with it at all. If might be tricky to make work but there is no reason it shouldn't.

Some winged race cars use something similar (only for different reasons). They use 3 coilovers. One for each wheel and one for both wheels. This way they can have a higher rate in 2-wheel bump (to handle the download) and not go overboard on the roll resistance (so 1-wheel bumps don't upset the car).

-You would have to use a heafty airbag to hold it up with reasonable pressures.
-The swaybar would have to be made of strong material to get all the travel you want and still have a decient rate.
-It might be cool to use air shocks on the corners insted of just regular shocks to give you some extra rate and adjustment.
-It would be hard to set it up to not have a progressive rate in roll (get stiffer the more it rolls) because as the swaybar arms move from horizontal the moment arm on them is redused. I don't know if that is good or bad (leaves are progressive and coils are not...).

I say go for it! /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
 
The cool feature about the scorpion was the front to rear coupling. The rest was mostly complicated fluff. The front to rear bars linked to each axle and pivoting on the chassis is what controlled everything. They used a system with very little roll control but the bars linked to the chassis on each side totally eliminated body roll. Probably to the point of being uncomfortable.
 
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My main beef with round down there is the impact resistance and inertial loads from the drive lines when I land hard.

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just adding my rambling..

I haveseen a few rigs where they are "scabbing" the tubbing, basicly cutting out 1/3 od a larger diamiter tubs and overlaying it ont he areas on tubbing that would see allot of impact. I have seen a tub struck with a slege and dent, when scabbed and witha bigger hammer the blow did jack crap /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

Would take alot of time but well worth it /forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif
 
I think using a square cross section for the bottom and/or skidplating is the way. I'm not into any tube taking a direct hit unless you get up to .188 wall or so. My .188 nerf bars are pretty dent resistant, but they are bent over the length.
 
You've been drinking a bit more than coffee haven't you?
Maybe you should have a do-over on that post.
 
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i here ya nam I agre but cost is ciost and money is mony I wulcal u this wek right nok I need a sllep

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I here ya man, I agree but cost is cost and money is money, I will call you this week, right now I need sleep.

/forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Ok, I didn't read thorugh all the posts, but.... One of the coolest 4 seater buggies I have seen is that of "Dan Dibble" over on POR! Kinda resembles a hummer in a way.. It's a 4 seater tube chassis, rockwells and 44's.... Not sure what engine he's running.
 
Check out Rancho's new 4 seater tube chassis. I don't know where to find pics other than on my hard drive but they have to be out there. I can't post pics right now, server's down.

It's a really clean tube chassis built by Rob at 4wheeler's supply in phoenix.
 
Here's the 4 seater I am referring to:

6844seater2.jpg

6844seater.jpg
 
All that money to build a buggy and there's only three seat covers on that one. What, the owner got cheap and didn't get the fourth?

/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


/forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
 
/forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif Well he had some other pics up on POR of another hottie grooving his boggers!!!! And to top it all off, these are all his wifes friends!!! /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
 
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... Not sure what engine he's running.

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Dan's got a healthy Howell TBI'd 454. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

For those interested - Dan's Pics
 
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I would like comments in general, sketches, pics of similar rigs (fairly narrow and low 4 seat specifically), things you like or have seen, whatever. So if it’s related within reason, don’t worry too much about “off topic”. But there are a few things I would specifically like to discuss.


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here is where my money is headed for my chassis, I finally got the 75 out of the garage so the ball is rolling.


I really like the overall width, not to key on looks, but the panels are that persons flavor, not mine.


pic12s.jpg
 
Hi all, thanks for the good comments on my buggy. BadDog where are you at with this project? It looks like you have a good list.

Dan
 
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