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454 build...what would you do?

R

RoTuN

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Here's the block............Gen VI

Anyone know the significance of the 6 bolt timing cover?

IMG-20111008-00316.jpg


casting #..............

IMG-20111008-00318.jpg


Heads = oval or peanuts?....................... casting # 10114156, will be ditching these for 110cc chambers to boost compression a little for higher elevation...

IMG-20111009-00324.jpg



Going to run a SMI Q-jet
Going in my '74 K10
Will not be towing
Will not be rock crawling
Would like idle to 5000 rpm range
Will be used from 6000'-12000' elevations
Bottom end is newer, won't be touching it!


What heads to put on?
What cam?
 
Last edited:
Massaged 781's or 049's, and a full roller cam that fit's the idle to 5000 preference.
 
6 bolt timing cover = gen VI, not gen IV.
 
tRustyK5 said:
Massaged 781's or 049's, and a full roller cam that fit's the idle to 5000 preference.
Click to expand...

x2 if you ask me on the roller cam. its free horse power as in a lot less friction. also go full roller rockers for the extra win. these alone should net 20-30 hp free to you .
 
Flat tappet cams are a crap shoot with the new oil we have too...and BBC's seem to have an oiling issue at #8. A lot of them eat cams back there. Roller cam means not having to worry about an uneventful break in and potential issues later. The "free" hp helps seal the deal for me.

The only crappy thing is cost on a non roller block.
 
sweetk30 said:
x2 if you ask me on the roller cam. its free horse power as in a lot less friction. also go full roller rockers for the extra win. these alone should net 20-30 hp free to you .
Click to expand...

I am also looking into a 454 build, now when you say roller rockers, do they have to be full rollers or could they be roller tip rockers and get the same resulot. Im only asking because roller tips are cheaper then full rollers.
 
peanuts or big ovals will get the job done here. you can make 400hp with peanuts while keeping the rpm under 5000.


781/049 big ovals need the chambers cc'd to find out the real size. i have some 781's that i believe are original and are 113cc. they are supposed to be 119cc. the comp cams econo head cc kit is only $20 from summit. buy one of those or pay the machine shop to do it instead of guessing about the chamber size.

also as nvrenuf pointed out that appears to be a newer block. that block number is used for gen V and VI. it also appears to be drilled and tapped for a roller cam already. ive heard you can put the older heads on the newer block, but i havent done it. 4x4high would probably know.

you might want to yank those heads off, have them checked out, angle milled to raise the compression. have a 3 angle valve job and some mild port work done and have all the head you need (pun intended).

oh..and X5 on the roller cam in a bbc.
 
tyler__820 said:
I am also looking into a 454 build, now when you say roller rockers, do they have to be full rollers or could they be roller tip rockers and get the same resulot. Im only asking because roller tips are cheaper then full rollers.
Click to expand...

basicly still free hp but not as much with roller tip over full roller.

and bbc has screw in studs and gide plates from factory so less up front price to do full roller rockers with guide plates than say a sbc motor would be.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice! Great info here........sorry for the "Gen IV" typo, it must have been my dyslexia? I know it's a Gen 6, but mistyped it.

I'm not sure about keeping these heads though, I heard it would be better to bump the compression up a bit by going with smaller chambers since the elevation it will be run at is 6000 to 12000 ft. I have also been looking at the Edelbrock top end stuff, any ideas on their available packages? I have been out of turning a wrench on gas motors for a few years, or decades actually.

It is at the shop right now getting the rotating assy. checked out.....didn't want to start on the top end before verifying the bottom wasn't all jacked up.

Yes, the bosses are drilled!
 
1BEATK5 said:
peanuts or big ovals will get the job done here. you can make 400hp with peanuts while keeping the rpm under 5000.


781/049 big ovals need the chambers cc'd to find out the real size. i have some 781's that i believe are original and are 113cc. they are supposed to be 119cc. the comp cams econo head cc kit is only $20 from summit. buy one of those or pay the machine shop to do it instead of guessing about the chamber size.

also as nvrenuf pointed out that appears to be a newer block. that block number is used for gen V and VI. it also appears to be drilled and tapped for a roller cam already. ive heard you can put the older heads on the newer block, but i havent done it. 4x4high would probably know.

you might want to yank those heads off, have them checked out, angle milled to raise the compression. have a 3 angle valve job and some mild port work done and have all the head you need (pun intended).

oh..and X5 on the roller cam in a bbc.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will take that advice to the shop and see what they say about angle milling for more compression.

Am definitely going full roller too.
 
IIRC you can use the older heads, but need the newer (year of block) gaskets. Everything lines up, but there is a coolant passage that needs to be blocked, I think, been a while since I did my 468...

I would use the heads that are on it. Bump the compression, get a nice cam, intake and exhaust, and have well over 400ft/lb of torque, probly close to 500.
 
b454rat said:
IIRC you can use the older heads, but need the newer (year of block) gaskets. Everything lines up, but there is a coolant passage that needs to be blocked, I think, been a while since I did my 468...

I would use the heads that are on it. Bump the compression, get a nice cam, intake and exhaust, and have well over 400ft/lb of torque, probly close to 500.
Click to expand...


Indeed. Gen 6 will take Mk4 heads no issue with newer gaskets. Its Gen 5 that requires special gaskets to use mk4 heads.
 
b454rat said:
IIRC you can use the older heads, but need the newer (year of block) gaskets. Everything lines up, but there is a coolant passage that needs to be blocked, I think, been a while since I did my 468...

I would use the heads that are on it. Bump the compression, get a nice cam, intake and exhaust, and have well over 400ft/lb of torque, probly close to 500.
Click to expand...

Keep the heads, mill for compression, roller cam and change out the rockers, any suggestions on what cam/rockers? What about intake? I searched a little for an intake that will match the peanut ports but don't remember if I was able to find any.

I would be happy with the numbers you estimated and would save some $ over going the easy route with the Edelbrock 454-O top end.
 
Granted it's in a perfect world, but Comp Cams website has a "dyno" that you punch some numbers in and what cam you want. I did this to a 454, stock low perf heads, 10-1 comp, 600 carb, small tube headers w/mufflers no cats, and a Extreme 268 cam. Got 380-some horse and 520-ish torque. That torque was at 2500.

There is an engine builder in Glen Burnie MD that built my 468 I had years ago. This guy has forgotten more than I know, (not that I know alot anyways) but told him bout this combo and said it would be a great street engine. He has been doing this for almost 30 years. Builds some wicked engines, so I tend to listen to what he says.

As for the intake, you might have to gasket match the intake ports so they will be at least close to that of the intake itself.
 
Quick update....................pulled the heads and found water sitting in 2 of the cylinders! Must have been sitting out in the rain, bored it to .030 then to .040 and still just a minor pitting in 1 of them. Going to hope that .060 does the trick as that is said to be the limit on these blocks. Rotating assy. is perfectly fine so I will save some $ there. Turns out since it is a GEN VI I dont have to worry about what heads to use..............

This is from Gary @ GMPP......."If the engine has a flat tappet cam AND bosses in the lifter valley for the roller lifter retainer, then it is a very late production Gen V engine built with a Gen VI block. We did that for about 6 months, before putting roller cams in everything and calling them Gen VI. What you have is a Gen VI block. It should have 6 bolt holes in the timing cover, roller lifter retainer bosses in the valley and a flat tappet cam. Confused....good that must have been our intent." and.........."The Gen VI block you have will accept all Gen VI parts and will accept Mark IV heads."

Any preferences on pistons? ICON, KB, etc? Forged or Hyper?
 
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