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454 interchange question?? Please help

B

bad larry

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Morning fellas, I dunno if I'll get any traffic over here but it seems the appropriate sub forum. I just lost the top end in my 88 v30; TBI 454-w- possible collateral damage. I bent some valves and stripped the teeth off the cam. I'm going to rebuild this one on my own time but won't be able to get to it for a while. So, I'm checking out Craigslist and found a low mile 93 TBI 454 relitively close to me for $1000. Would this engine be compatable w my ECM? Would there be any non desireable differences? Thanks.
 
I would look at cam profiles, and compression ratio of the two years, but I think a TBI is a TBI is a TBI?
 
Only undesirable difference is. If the 93 comes with a TBI it probably has the smaller injectors that run higher pressure. Just use your old TBI...
 
Hhmm, well I can use my old TBI that's for sure but iirc the TBI 454 in 93 was rated @ a touch more hp than my 88. There will be no further mods except for some Sanderson or Doug Thorley headers. That being said I would assume the 93 set up would be better, no?
 
Splitting hairs I think?

The 454/7.4L with smaller injectors also ran 30 psi regulater instead of the 12 psi...

When you change exhaust manifold to header not how far 02 sensor moves? Street legal header have 02 sensor in same location. Long tube headers move 02 sensor like 2-3 feet further downstream. INT delay vs Airflow in chip/bin needs to be adjusted for proper operation. Heated 02 sensor in headers helps, but if tune is spot on it will not need O2 sensor feedback for correction, you'll never notice when a unheated 02 sensor cools off and goes Open Loop.
 
I am humbled w your injection knowlege...:bow:
Do I sound like I'm on the right track if I use mid length headers w a 02 sensor bung close to factory location? This is my first go-round w this swap and headers on a TBI.. I can use all the help I can get.. The guy I bought the motor from was a bbc guy and he suggested using my intake manifold and TBI w my computer, just for the sake of lead length and geographical location of components going back into the truck... I don't want to over complicate it.. Thanks for the advise btw..
 
You'll use your ECM, TBI and harness for sure. TBI because we don't know what one is on 93, yours for sure has correct injectors for fuel pressure of vehcle and matches the ECM.

I don't understand the intake swap? But I'm not well versed in differences in BB intake years or changes in sensors etc.. so why? I'd like to know?

Use headers you have or get one that work best. Chip change would be best upgrade and INT delay can be what ever you need. If you don't want to deal with that get headers that are CARB approved in CA or noted as 48 state street legal and the 02 sensor will be correctly located.

I've used Headman Elite coated and were the best headers I've ever had, no leaks, no issues, no rust, underhood temps were lower, 02 sensor stayed hot becuase the coating keeps heat in!
 
OK, so aside from the intake and the injectors can one assume the comp ratio, and cam are the same? If so and all other internal parts are the same than I should be good using my TBI and intake. I don't have any headers yet so I'm open to any suggestions. I do however have a TBI guy chip (harris performance). What is INT delay? We don't have any emissions in Maine so I'd like to keep the exhaust as simple and functional as possible. Thanks again.
 
Being a stock motor your stuff will bolt on and run fine. I don't know exact changes on enternals but there's not enough to stop you.

If the chip is a fancy name off the shelf for everything? It's as worthless as tits on a bull... we have laods of them to compare to stock and if guys knew they paid that much for hardly any changes that amount to nothing? They'd be pissed! Goes for all makes.

Unless you data log and work with a tuner it's not right, just close if your lucky.

INT Delay Vs Airflow is the amount of delay for changes in fueling to reach O2 sensor before the ECM makes another adjustment.

The integrator delay is required to prevent overshoot and oscillation of the fueling. The delay is to give the O2 sensor time to see and respond to the change in fueling (an INT change). It takes a finite amount of time for the change in injector PW (change in amount of fuel) to travel through the engine and out the exhaust. There is also a delay within the O2 sensor.
The table at $48F, INT delay vs. airflow, has less delay as the airflow increases. If the O2 sensor position is moved further downstream in exhaust this delay needs to be increased. This is the transport delay term.
Click to expand...
 
OK I think I understand an intake swap? But you could put your injector pod on the newer TBI to avoid an intake change.

7_4LTBI%20Comparison.jpg
 
Ok, looks like basically nothing from the gen IV will work with the gen V, heads are different, intake is different, exhaust manifolds are different, tbi base (not the intake but the physical bottom of the throttle body) is different, pita! I may go all gen V including the TBI and the computer OR use my original block w a new cam, heads, and headers.. I've yet to drop the oil pan but according to my casting numbers # 14015445 I could have a 2 or 4 bolt main, the 93 block is a casting # 0114182 which is a 4 bolt main but seems that parts are scarce for these. Gen 6 now that's another story, parts interchange w gen 4 but for the short gen 5 run seems they were kinda bastards... I'll be gone on my tugboat for 2-6 weeks so ill be doing quite a bit of research in the meantime. So, anybody feel free to chip in w suggestions.
 
The intake and exhaust manifolds are perfectly interchangable between mark IV, Gen V, Gen VI. The Gen V heads are a little different and require a special gasket to work with the other style blocks, but even that is a little hit and miss with the variation of water jackets. The oil pan and flywheel pattern is different between the 2 piece rear main Mark IV and the one piece rear main of the Gen V and VI. The parts interchange is still pretty good between the different designs and shouldn't cause very many headaches.

Make sure to match the throttle body and knock sensor to the ECM. Just about everything internal on the engine is going to be the same or close enough that you shouldn't have any issues with the PROM.
 
Thanks BigBlock, I was only going on what I read so assumptions made a ass outta me... What I saw was, yes the cooling passages don't quite line up between gen 4 and gen 5 heads and therefor leaks are prevalent. I also read that a few bolts on the intake can't be utilized, weather or not that's a show stopper I dunno. I do have them side by side currently so I'll soon see. I'm at a loss for what exactly I should do at this point; option 1 is rebuild the gen 4 if its a 4 bolt main, option 2 is to rebuild the gen 5 because it is a 4 bolt main. Casting # of my old motor is 14015445, casting number of the 93 is #10114182. I've heard that parts availability for the gen 4 is better than the gen 5 but I haven't confirmed this yet. This will be my first BBC build but not my first motor build. I'd love to hear what people have to say about the two possible motors. In summery the original motor gen 4 stripped the cam gear and interfered w the intake valves (not sure of any other damage yet), the 93 gen 5 was a good 80k mile take out w no smoke, knocks, or any other apparent damage. I'm headed out on my Tugboat for possibly as long as 6 weeks so in the meantime I hope to get a game plan together for when I get home. Not knowing the damage in the gen 4 or wether its a 4 bolt main is the only hindering factor.. Thanks again to you Eagle and BigBlock for your suggestions. I might add that I'm not looking to do anything radical w the engine, just build a solid motor w mild improvements for a summer daily driver.
 
New/used parts: need some part# help

So... It's been a little while and IV been busy at work but I managed to put some parts on the shelf. I bought a NOS gm performance parts cam #12361316, a set of edlebrock shorty headers, and a nice set of oval port 781 heads off a early bbc; iirc the heads are in the neighborhood of 113cc. I also bough from the same guy an old holly street avenger single plane intake though I dunno if I'm gunna use it or not; maybe some of you could suggest an intake based on the cam? I'll be using my gen 4 block incase I forgot to mention that in a prior post. Question; can anybody throw a couple part numbers at me for cam bearings, lifters and pushrods? Something important I was wondering was is the cam designed for solid lifters or rollers? Thanks guys, I'm still a green horn when it comes to building a motor...
 
bad larry said:
So... It's been a little while and IV been busy at work but I managed to put some parts on the shelf. I bought a NOS gm performance parts cam #12361316, a set of edlebrock shorty headers, and a nice set of oval port 781 heads off a early bbc; iirc the heads are in the neighborhood of 113cc. I also bough from the same guy an old holly street avenger single plane intake though I dunno if I'm gunna use it or not; maybe some of you could suggest an intake based on the cam? I'll be using my gen 4 block incase I forgot to mention that in a prior post. Question; can anybody throw a couple part numbers at me for cam bearings, lifters and pushrods? Something important I was wondering was is the cam designed for solid lifters or rollers? Thanks guys, I'm still a green horn when it comes to building a motor...
Click to expand...

That cam is pretty mild so you should be able reuse your stock valve springs, rockers, push rods etc. It is designed for hydraulic flat lifters so just order some stock replacement lifters and you'll be fine. Same for the cam bearings.

781 castings are generally 118cc give or take.

I would use an Edelbrock Performer RPM and make an adapter for the TBI.

Why shorty headers? If you are going to fight headers you just as well get some long tubes and make it worth your while.
 
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