454 low-mid range torque build?

[beags86]

Procharger would be a 100% better option in my opinion. Made for the vehicle. Better packaging.
Intercooler. The only problem with Procharger is that it's centrifugal Style super that's going to give you more boost gain with rpm.
A roots like the 177 will give you higher boost level at lower RPM. You can always change pulleys to tailor that to your needs, but roots blowers make alot more heat then you might want. Also a water to air heat exchanger is more money and complexity.

Procharger as a company has become one the premier supercharger Company's out there. Guessing overall that system would be a better fit to your truck then a roots style.

But.....
I don't really think for a general low rpm high torque engine that only eats 91 octane in a overland style, work horse rig that a blower at all is what you want.
I like the idea myself. But I don't think that fits in with your goals.

If your really looking to spend that kind of money, why not swap a 8.1?

I am not a fan of the 8.1
The head bolt design is different then the BBC mark 4/5/6 design so you can never upgrade without buying raylar engineering stuff.
But that said.... alots of forum members have tossed them in trucks and really like them. I think one would be fine for your application.
Personally I'll never do a 8.1 swap because a 4.25 stroke crank is literally 300 dollars to stroke your existing BBC. And your not limited to the mark 7 heads.
I want the option to upgrade to a standard set of aluminum bbc heads. But that is something your probably not looking for.

If you have a budget of 5/6k you could rebuilt your existing 454 into a 489/496 with a set of L29/781 casting heads all day for 4k.
Then you would have fresh bearings and rings.
Then toss on a aftermarket efi on a single plane manifold and be done. I bet if done right you would could be all in for close to 6k and it could run on 87/89 octane and would still make 550 ft lbs of torque off idle.

 

[red EOD]

Procharger would be a 100% better option in my opinion. Made for the vehicle. Better packaging.
Intercooler. The only problem with Procharger is that it's centrifugal Style super that's going to give you more boost gain with rpm.
A roots like the 177 will give you better low end grunt. Higher boost level at lower RPM. You can always change pulleys to Taylor that to your needs, but roots blowers make alot more heat then you might want. Also a water to air heat exchanger is more money and complexity.

Procharger as a company has become one the premier supercharger Company's out there. Guessing overall that system would be a better fit to your your truck then a roots style.

But.....
I don't really think for a general low rpm high torque engine that only eats 91 octane in a overland style, work horse rig that a blower at all is what you want.
I like the idea myself. But I don't think that fits in with your goals.

If your really looking to spend that kind of money, why not swap a 8.1?

I am not a fan of the 8.1
The head bolt design is different then the BBC mark 4/5/6 design so you can never upgrade without buying raylar engineering stuff.
But that said.... alots of forum members have tossed them in trucks and really like them. I think one would be fine for your application.
Personally I'll never do a 8.1 swap because a 4.25 stroke crank is literally 300 dollars to stroke your existing BBC. And your not limited to the mark 7 heads.
I want the option to upgrade to a standard set of aluminum bbc heads. But that is something your probably not looking for.

If you have a budget of 5/6k you could rebuilt your existing 454 into a 489/496 with a set of L29/781 casting heads all day for 4k.
Then you would have fresh bearings and rings.
Then toss on a aftermarket efi on a single plane manifold and be done. I bet if done right you would could be all in for close to 6k and it could run on 87/89 octane and would still make 550 ft lbs of torque off idle.

You're right 91 octane required and high rpm are not the goal.

8.1 is a good solid engine, if I do an engine swap it will be diesel just not in the plans. 454 can be built well for my goals/needs and the engine is currently in good condition, compares to the 6.5 diesel in the other truck.

Last big block I had was bored 30 over, some cam work, think 800cfm carb, couple other goodies. Pulled like a son a bitch for a gasser, just got 6mpg on a good day empty and easily dropped to 4 or less mpg which is the reason I got rid of it. Part of my hesitancy towards naturally aspirated stems from that. 8mpg towing on 87 octane I can deal with, below that is a problem.

 

[nvrenuf]

If you have a budget of 5/6k you could rebuilt your existing 454 into a 489/496 with a set of L29/781 casting heads all day for 4k.
Then you would have fresh bearings and rings.
Then toss on a aftermarket efi on a single plane manifold and be done. I bet if done right you would could be all in for close to 6k and it could run on 87/89 octane and would still make 550 ft lbs of torque off idle.

Winner^^

Simpler
Fresh motor
Better parts
Built to spec rather than making something work.

 

[beags86]

You're right 91 octane required and high rpm are not the goal.

8.1 is a good solid engine, if I do an engine swap it will be diesel just not in the plans. 454 can be built well for my goals/needs and the engine is currently in good condition, compares to the 6.5 diesel in the other truck.

Last big block I had was bored 30 over, some cam work, think 800cfm carb, couple other goodies. Pulled like a son a bitch for a gasser, just got 6mpg on a good day empty and easily dropped to 4 or less mpg which is the reason I got rid of it. Part of my hesitancy towards naturally aspirated stems from that. 8mpg towing on 87 octane I can deal with, below that is a problem.

Efi and an overdrive will get you up past 10. I regularly get 14/15mpg in my 93.

93 k2500 single cab long box, 4L80E, 4x4.

Not going to get into a pissing match if anyone wants me call me out on that. That's what it gets. F off if you don't believe me.

Understand your hesitation about fuel consumption. But a blower won't help that considerably. Even if it does, if you have to bump over a few notches at the fuel pump, you won't like paying for 91/93.
My DD is boosted and all I buy is whatever is on the far right. Sometimes that gets pretty old.

 

[imiceman44]

ZooMad posted them up earlier as well. Honestly when I looked at the link the first time I missed the part where it discusses that tbi tuning is included. $5400, estimated 60-65% increase in HP which if torque increase is similar would put it at very comfortable, even a little higher than my goals.

$4000 for a 177 series and tune with lots of trial/error adjustments by me (plus intake), vs $5400 for a kit that's warrantied and includes an intercooler. Once adding in the intercooler, intake plumbing, tuning trial/error time, certainly a viable option.

That sounds like maybe something I could do
That would make a nice power plant for my overland suburban build

 

[imiceman44]

Procharger would be a 100% better option in my opinion. Made for the vehicle. Better packaging.
Intercooler. The only problem with Procharger is that it's centrifugal Style super that's going to give you more boost gain with rpm.
A roots like the 177 will give you higher boost level at lower RPM. You can always change pulleys to tailor that to your needs, but roots blowers make alot more heat then you might want. Also a water to air heat exchanger is more money and complexity.

Procharger as a company has become one the premier supercharger Company's out there. Guessing overall that system would be a better fit to your truck then a roots style.

But.....
I don't really think for a general low rpm high torque engine that only eats 91 octane in a overland style, work horse rig that a blower at all is what you want.
I like the idea myself. But I don't think that fits in with your goals.

If your really looking to spend that kind of money, why not swap a 8.1?

I am not a fan of the 8.1
The head bolt design is different then the BBC mark 4/5/6 design so you can never upgrade without buying raylar engineering stuff.
But that said.... alots of forum members have tossed them in trucks and really like them. I think one would be fine for your application.
Personally I'll never do a 8.1 swap because a 4.25 stroke crank is literally 300 dollars to stroke your existing BBC. And your not limited to the mark 7 heads.
I want the option to upgrade to a standard set of aluminum bbc heads. But that is something your probably not looking for.

If you have a budget of 5/6k you could rebuilt your existing 454 into a 489/496 with a set of L29/781 casting heads all day for 4k.
Then you would have fresh bearings and rings.
Then toss on a aftermarket efi on a single plane manifold and be done. I bet if done right you would could be all in for close to 6k and it could run on 87/89 octane and would still make 550 ft lbs of torque off idle.

Yeah it might not be the best option for overland but it would be a hell of a lot of fun to drive on road between off road sections

 

[red EOD]

Efi and an overdrive will get you up past 10. I regularly get 14/15mpg in my 93.

93 k2500 single cab long box, 4L80E, 4x4.

Not going to get into a pissing match if anyone wants me call me out on that. That's what it gets. F off if you don't believe me.

Understand your hesitation about fuel consumption. But a blower won't help that considerably. Even if it does, if you have to bump over a few notches at the fuel pump, you won't like paying for 91/93.
My DD is boosted and all I buy is whatever is on the far right. Sometimes that gets pretty old.

Truck specs: 95 k3500 extended cab dually. 454, nv4500, bw4401 tcase with 4.10 axle gears and currently 215/75/16 tires (dually), plan to go 33-35" tires. 10mpg cruising at 70mph with ac on and 400 lbs of motorcycle in the bed. Has overdrive and the last year of tbi so factory spec 405ft/lbs torque. All stock.

If no major upgrades can be done without hurting the fuel economy or requiring 91/93 octane then I'll leave it at intake/exhaust.

 

[beags86]

Maybe focus on low hanging fruit, things that will benfit you later if you do boost it?
Headers, good exhaust, ditch the mechanical fan for a couple of electric fans. Cold air intake of some sort?. Tbi performer Intake.

See if you can notice a mpg gain?

 

[shady]

I'd still say, long tube headers with small primaries. H pipe if you can fit it. And an RV cam. Then while your at the cam swap you can add the intake beags mentioned.
Then get a tune. RV cams are meant to maximize torque off idle. Most of the time they improve mpg also. They won't win a race but they'll allow you to pull a house down.

 

[Bent77]

The actual spec on those “rv” cams are all over the map

If you’re going to buy a cam, talk to @folkenheath and let him spec a cam to your needs

 

[beags86]

The actual spec on those “rv” cams are all over the map

If you’re going to buy a cam, talk to @folkenheath and let him spec a cam to your needs

Had a 400 sbc that we pulled from a rv once. We put a solid roller in it before we stabbed into a 3rd gen Camaro. We said it was just an rv cam. Does that qualify?

 

[Bent77]

Had a 400 sbc that we pulled from a rv once. We put a solid roller in it before we stabbed into a 3rd gen Camaro. We said it was just an rv cam. Does that qualify?

Think that actually qualifies. We went through this once with different shops in Denver. Basically an rv cam was whatever they had on the shelf or could get cheap. The one had a power band of 3100-3500. Worthless

 

[red EOD]

A cam that would improve torque from idle to 3k and either maintain or even improve fuel economy would fit wonderfully. It could fall on it's face at 3500 without much issue from me.

So step by step list would be: Exhaust plus headers, Cold air intake, tbi performer intake manifold, tune, cam?

Long tube vs short tube headers, thought long tubes were better for higher rpm?

 

[beags86]

There is a actually thing as a rv cam. If you can find some specs of an actual motor home, 350/400/454 vs a regular production 350/400/454 you found in the same year truck you find the cam would be slightly bigger. How much? Well from my understanding is that coach builders that were building the rvs spec'ed that. So they were all different. Add in 35-45 years of bench racing and all of a sudden you have the legend of the RV cam, bigger then stock. But good enough to run with a stock tune.
You wouldn't dare rebuild your truck engine in the 80s with a covenanted RV cam.
The spec for them are all over the place. Basically figure out whats stock and buy the next biggest one and you have a RV cam.
What a joke. Never bought into it myself.

 

[beags86]

454, in a gmt400 and long tubes? Good luck changing that oil filter.
I'm not even sure they make long tubes for that app??

 

[shady]

Long tubes with small primaries maximize velocity of the exhaust. Which improves low end torque.
If you use large primaries yes is helps the high end HP. And you lose torque down low.
Velocity is key. Velocity and flow are 2 different things. Which is why the peanut port heads are the best choice for low end torque. Small runners and small ports mean the air has to move faster.

There are RV cams. Most are labeled towing now. But RV is still a filter in the USE selection when choosing a cam.
Yes they are smaller, and not much over stock. But the duration, lift, and lobe separation are designed with torque in mind. Not HP. Which is why people scoff at the idea. Everyone thinks of HP. Wants HP. Horse power isn't what propels your vehicle. Torque does. HP just makes it propel faster. Fast isn't what your goal is.
I've been nearly obsessed with the idea of low end torque for years now. It's all I research about engines.
I'm sure a few that have read some of my other threads will even remember my quest for low end.

Take the advice from whoever you decide to. But don't dismiss what I mentioned. They are cheap and relitively easy things you can do to improve what your looking for.
And you can always supercharge it later.

 

[beags86]

Long tubes with small primaries maximize velocity of the exhaust. Which improves low end torque.
If you use large primaries yes is helps the high end HP. And you lose torque down low.
Velocity is key. Velocity and flow are 2 different things. Which is why the peanut port heads are the best choice for low end torque. Small runners and small ports mean the air has to move faster.

There are RV cams. Most are labeled towing now. But RV is still a filter in the USE selection when choosing a cam.
Yes they are smaller, and not much over stock. But the duration, lift, and lobe separation are designed with torque in mind. Not HP. Which is why people scoff at the idea. Everyone thinks of HP. Wants HP. Horse power isn't what propels your vehicle. Torque does. HP just makes it propel faster. Fast isn't what your goal is.
I've been nearly obsessed with the idea of low end torque for years now. It's all I research about engines.
I'm sure a few that have read some of my other threads will even remember my quest for low end.

Take the advice from whoever you decide to. But don't dismiss what I mentioned. They are cheap and relitively easy things you can do to improve what your looking for.
And you can always supercharge it later.

Thanks for bringing the boring Rick.

More supercharged bbc talk.

 

[Bent77]

Bwahaha

 

[nvrenuf]

@red EOD whats your cruising rpm? A 215/75r16 is going to be 28”~29”, a slightly taller tire (31-33) might help by cutting some rpm. Of course, there is the “too much of a good thing” part where a 35” tire is going to start getting heavy plus it may pull the rpm’s down below the sweet spot.

 

[red EOD]

@red EOD whats your cruising rpm? A 215/75r16 is going to be 28”~29”, a slightly taller tire (31-33) might help by cutting some rpm. Of course, there is the “too much of a good thing” part where a 35” tire is going to start getting heavy plus it may pull the rpm’s down below the sweet spot.

I'll have to look closer next time I drive it (swapping the tcase out, having to wait for a jack to arrive). 2600rpm ish at 70mph if I remember right.