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454 oil consumption (Cherry truck LOOK)

trevmountain

trevmountain

1/2 ton status
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Posts
158
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Location
Jackson, WY
Hey Guys. I've got a cherry 84 1 ton with a built 454. Bored out and decked with the goodies. Motor has about 10,000 to 15,000 on it. I bought the truck a year ago and it runs great and has a ton of power the only problem is that it's using a butt load of oil. A lot meaning a quart every 200 to 300 miles. Here is what I've determined so far.

1) Truck does not smoke on start up or on acceleration throught the gears ( I have had people follow behind me looking for smoke)
2) Motor does not leak any oil
3) It's not pulling oil through the PCV
4) Truck runs great.

The pictures I've enclosed are of the truck, motor and the recently pulled plugs. These plugs only have about 2000 miles on them and as you can see they are super fouled. Based on this I would assume rings or valve guides but with no smoke at anytime it's odd. Also not so sure these plugs are entirely oil fouled. They appear to have alot of carbon build up as well..??


I need some engine gurus
Thanks

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i be bettin racing style rings used . some rings are not good for street use as thay basicly never break in and seal good. and this leads to oil use.

but thats my opinion. hope scott pops in he is the super motor expert.
 
First problem i see is a box in the background that says Bosch Platinum. Older Chevy engines DO NOT like Platinum plugs for some reason. I would start with swapping in a set of NGK V-power plugs and put some miles on it and see what happens. If those plugs have only 2000 miles on them then i would put 2000 on a set of the NGK V-power plugs for an exact mileage comparison. Next, if it doesn't smoke continuously it is not a ring problem. It is more likely a guide or seal issue assuming swapping the plugs doesn't get you anywhere. Smoke on start-up and acceleration can sometimes be very hard to see. You said it isn't the PCV valve sucking oil so i'm assuming you've taken a look at the hose and it's dry inside? Next would be to make sure you have a CORRECTLY working PCV system. You need a PCV valve in one valve cover hooked to a manifold vacuum source and the other valve cover must have a hose that runs to the base of the air cleaner assembly. You MUST NOT have an open breather on either valve cover or the crankcase WILL pressurize and push oil past the valves/guides.
 
Actually those fouled plugs in the pics are NGK's, V-power too I believe. I replaced those with the bosh, but I will go back to the NGK's if you say platinums are no good in old chevs.

The PCV is set up correctly I believe. The first thing I checked when I bought the truck was to see if there was a sheild behind the PCV valve hole. I know if I could see the head that it would for sure pull oil. The hose itself and the nipple of the PCV valve is slightly damp with oil but it's just a tiny bit. I would have to think that for a quart every 200-300 miles it would be dripping with oil but I may be wrong on this. The PCV hose runs to base of the carb and the oil filler hole has a K&N filtered breathing oil cap (refer to picture). I believe that functions the same as a hose from valve cover to the air cleaner, correct?

I used to have a 3/4 ton 85 chev that used oil. Only about a quart every 2000 miles or so but it was an old motor that had sat for years and it smoked like a siv. You'd always get a ploom of blue smoke on start up. This truck just flat out doesn't do that. Definently not on start up and on acceleration I had a mechanic follow me for 4 miles going all through the gears up and down rompin on her good and the verdict was no smoke. Certainly not enough to warrant this kind of consumption anyway.
 
trevmountain said:
Actually those fouled plugs in the pics are NGK's, V-power too I believe. I replaced those with the bosh, but I will go back to the NGK's if you say platinums are no good in old chevs.

The PCV is set up correctly I believe. The first thing I checked when I bought the truck was to see if there was a sheild behind the PCV valve hole. I know if I could see the head that it would for sure pull oil. The hose itself and the nipple of the PCV valve is slightly damp with oil but it's just a tiny bit. I would have to think that for a quart every 200-300 miles it would be dripping with oil but I may be wrong on this. The PCV hose runs to base of the carb and the oil filler hole has a K&N filtered breathing oil cap (refer to picture). I believe that functions the same as a hose from valve cover to the air cleaner, correct?

I used to have a 3/4 ton 85 chev that used oil. Only about a quart every 2000 miles or so but it was an old motor that had sat for years and it smoked like a siv. You'd always get a ploom of blue smoke on start up. This truck just flat out doesn't do that. Definently not on start up and on acceleration I had a mechanic follow me for 4 miles going all through the gears up and down rompin on her good and the verdict was no smoke. Certainly not enough to warrant this kind of consumption anyway.
Click to expand...

Nope, CANNOT use a "breather", that makes the system "open" and WILL NOT function properly. That breather needs to be replaced with a hose that attaches to the underside of the air cleaner assembly. Also need to make sure that the PCV hose and also the fresh air hose are rated for the intended purpose (fuel hose is not correct and can suck closed).
 
Ok no problem. I wonder why they set up the motor this way? It seems weird that K & N makes a filler breather cap like that in the first place. I wonder what it's purpose would be.

To set it up correctly would I need to get a regular oil cap maybe one that has a nipple on it to attatch hose and then run it to the underside of the air cleaner. You know I think that would be the only way to incorporate a hose line at all. The valve covers are GM aftermarket and their aren't any other holes or grommets ect.

Question: when you stated the system is "open" does that mean that there is just to much air available. Is that the reason for a hose, a tighter passage of air?

Thanks for the help
 
what scott is saying is the motor needs a small vacume in the crank case. thats why there is 2 hoses to pull from the motor. it helps seal up rings a tiny bit and also keep any motor crankcase pressures away from the engine.

some race car builders use a vacume pump to create more vacume with low tension rings for less drag and better seal.

and i work on cars/trucks. i HATE bosch plugs. thay sould not be used in american cars at ALL. to many problems in the end.
 
not to turn this into an argument but there are plenty of motors that run fine without a PCV....

I work on 100's of BB and SB chevys every year that have none... yup, none... 2 hoses up to a flame arrestor, thats it... not really evacuating the crankcase there..

as to the OP... a 454 with "all the goodies" doesn't say much.... HUGE difference between cast, moly and chrome moly rings... I'd invest in a leakdown tester...

run some AC's or NgK's in it... but I'd start reading them sooner than 2 grand to pick up on the issue.. sometimes it's much easier to read a plug early in it's problem.. "oh, it was new last week, now it's getting sooty, etc..."
 
As was mentioned a leakdown test would be helpful. This will help determine if you have a ring seal problem. If not, here's some stuff I've run into.
Also, depending on how big your camshaft is, and how observant your machininst is, I have had problems with the valve spring retainers almost contacting the valve guides and munching up the valve seals. Even a .525 lift cam can present this problem.
Another place to look might be intake gaskets. Depending how the heads and deck were machined, you could have a vacuum leak big enough to draw crankcase vapors/oil droplets into your intake stream, but not big enough to make it run weird. I have had this problem personally. It's a puzzler at first.
 
Good info guys. I looked at some of the engine specs and it looks like the cam is .520 lift-218 degree duration at 50 thousanths valve lift.

Heads are Iron 049 casting, ported and polished with brand new valve guides and hardened seats.

Not sure about what type of rings were used I may have to call on this. Pistons are silicone impregnated.

It has GM performance roller rockers and hydraulic lifters.

Rod bearings were matched and torqued, connecting rods were checked.

Weiand action plus dual plane intake, gasket matched.

It has an older Elderbrock quadrajet carb that I don't think they make anymore, 795 cfm. Doug thorley headers.

At time of build timing showed 14 degrees initial time on non ported, 35.5 total time.

Did some research and doing a leak down test sounds like just where I need to start. It sounds like it will show me just about everything. I'll check the valve seals as well for damage. I wondered about the intake manifold gasket. I wondered if a leak down test would be able to show a vacuum leak in the manifold?

Great information guys. I swear I've talked to quite a few mechanics and they really didn't have much to say. I wonder if I'll have a hard time finding someone who is familiar with a leak down test and won't just confuse it with a compression test.
 
You will not find the intake gasket issue with a leakdown test. If you could find someone with a smoke tester you could smoke the crankcase with the carburetor off and you might find it.
 
looked like big time ash deposits to me, a sure sign of oil burning...
 
pre-ignition is the mix being fired BEFORE the plug fires... either by carbon deposits, too hot a plug, etc...

that's a recipe for a piston with a window in it....
 
I think intake gasket. I have had trouble with the blue stripe felpro on aftermarket intakes.
 
When you get a new intake, you need to mock it up on the engine and look at the angles in comparison to the heads. Quite often they need milled at an angle to be perfectly parallel to the intake side of the heads for perfect sealing. If the intake is hitting the top of the head harder than the bottom, it can create an un-sealed area at the bottom of the intake runner between the head and intake and siphon oil and air out of the valley into the intake runner. I see it more often on race cars with lots of bolt on style stuff and heads that have been milled or angle milled, but a definite possibility.
Also, when you have oil in the chamber or on top of the piston, it will detonate MUCH earlier than if everything was clean and dry. So the engine may be detonating (pre-ignition) as well as the oil burning. When the thing starts detonating, it will quite often wipe out the rings and try and hurt ring lands. When it gets to that point, it gets easy to mis-diagnose of which one came first. (The old cause and effect loop.)
Let us know about compression and leakdown tests.
 
Hey Trevor whats up man. I can recommend several shops in the IF area that can help you out but none in Jackson. I don't have a leak down tester or I would just say cruise on over.

BTW guys this is one of the nicest trucks I have ever seen. One of these days I am sneaking over to Jackson and stealing your mirrors LOL :D
 
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