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4wd help needed!

dhcomp

dhcomp

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For the first time in my life, I had to put chains on one of my vehicles. Not happy.

Last year, I had an intermittent popping/clunking noise while under load in 4wd. Noise only happened in 4wd, not in 2wd with hubs locked. Replaced hubs, opened up the diff, all looks good, hubs lock properly on jack stands, etc

Get to the snow line, lock the hubs, get in to drive, and get a Horrible popping clunking noise from both sides of front end, even with the tcase in 2wd.

Put it in 4wd, hope noise goes away, start driving. Make it about 20 USA yards before I can't take the noise anymore.

Unlock hubs, put chains on, and dominate through white out conditions.


So....what's the deal? Sounds like maybe the shafts are flopping at the ujoint location? Is there some sort of support bearing I'm missing? U joints are good.

Need 4wd next weekend. Appreciate the quick responses!
 
I'd say axle shaft u-joints, or horrible slop in the driveshaft slip joint. Gonna be a sucky job...
 
Axle shaft joints were done with the axle about a year ago. Don't think that's the issue.

When going straight, you would think u joints would only be an issue when you start up, unless they are snapped in half.
 
So, after reconsidering u joints, it may have been 2-3 yrs, and I put ****ty joints in there

Just ordered a set of spicers in case that is what's bad when I tear it open

Any other guesses?

What do you guys lube them with before assembly? Always thought the lube that was in them was all I needed. May be part of the reason for premature failure
 
I got sealed forged Spicers for mine. I gently removed the caps and added some grease in case. They were well lubed already though.

I would thoroughly check your front driveshaft first though. Could be the double cardan could be trashed, or the slip joint. It'd suck to pull the knuckles off to find out it was the driveshaft...
 
If you lock the hub and rotate the wheel by hand can you hear the noise?
 
dhcomp said:
So, after reconsidering u joints, it may have been 2-3 yrs, and I put ****ty joints in there

Just ordered a set of spicers in case that is what's bad when I tear it open

Any other guesses?

What do you guys lube them with before assembly? Always thought the lube that was in them was all I needed. May be part of the reason for premature failure
Click to expand...

The grease that comes in them is just to keep them from rusting, you MUST always grease u-joints after installation, unless of course they are non-greaseable.
 
"I would thoroughly check your front driveshaft first though. Could be the double cardan could be trashed, or the slip joint. It'd suck to pull the knuckles off to find out it was the driveshaft..."

Used to plow a lot years ago with a 72' blazer (wish I still had it!). I heard that noise a few times. RustyK5 is right on. It was always the pin end bearing in the cardan joint (double u-joint by the transfer case end of the front drive shaft) that causes the two joints to go out of alignment and clunk. If you go too long you will wear out the pin and need a new shaft. There used to be a bearing kit for that pin. I imagine they still make them.

If you lift one wheel and turn it with the transfer case in 4wd, hubs locked, and you hear the noise then I would say bad spider gears because the front drive shaft won't be turning and either will the off-side axle shaft, only the pumpkin. Put the first tire back on the ground and pick the up the other side and spin the tire. If you get the noise again that would reaffirm to me that it's in the pumpkin. If the noise comes from one side then check that side.
 
Will check the drive shaft. Think mine is single joint though.

Pumpkin is in great shape. Popped the cover to inspect and move last week.
 
Just looked it up. They show both the single and the cardan joint model for the 2500. Guess you'll have to look. Try jacking up the passenger wheel and put the transfer in 2wd. Leave the lockouts locked and turn the tire by hand. From the passenger side you should be able to watch the front driveshaft rotate as you're turning the tire. Put the transfer in gear and turn the wheel. A bad joint with show up this way with the shaft flexing in any direction. Also try pushing up and down on the driveshaft in the joint areas. Two big screw drivers slid through the joints and twisted in opposite directions help when trying to twist a u-joint to test it for sloppiness. Just some ideas.
 
When we talk greaseable, are we talking greasing inside the caps before install, or are we talking about greasing through a zerk after install?

Are the spicers greaseable?
 
dhcomp said:
When we talk greaseable, are we talking greasing inside the caps before install, or are we talking about greasing through a zerk after install?

Are the spicers greaseable?
Click to expand...

Basically, all of the above.........

Pretty much all the U-joints used to be grease-able, and had to be greased after assembly.
Then, first the factory began making "lifetime" greased joints, that had no fittings.
The idea was, that most people did not grease them correctly. They either did not do it often enough, pumped in too much grease and blew out the seals, in some rare cases used the wrong grease, or failed to keep the grease gun and zerk clean and wound up pumping in dirt.

But, still most of the aftermarket ones were grease-able.

Still, that little hole and the grease bore through the cross has long been considered a weak point.
There is some debate as to that.

So, you started seeing U-joints that had the zerks in the ends of the four caps, and finally non-grease ones.

So, what is your answer? It depends. First, if there are instructions, read and follow them.
If the joint has no fittings, and no place for fittings, then it should have lots of grease inside when you pull off a cap.

These, in theory do not need to be greased. If you wipe off or lose some grease during the install, you might want to put some back in, but try to avoid it due to the possible danger of mismatching greases.

If it has a place for a zerk in the cross, my method is to remove the zerk if its in place, fill the bottom of each cap with grease, and gently press them back on during the install, letting the grease have time to flow down the bore and out the zerk hole.
This greases each cap, and eliminates any air pockets that might starve a cap for grease.

Once the joint is installed, I put on the zerk, and then gently grease the joint through it until I see a tiny amount of grease from each seal.

As the other poster said, the ones with grease fittings have only enough grease in them from the store to prevent rust. If you do not grease them, after install, they will not last long.

A lot of people put those on as is, then grease them through the zerk until grease comes out each seal.
That is almost certainly as good a way as mine, and a lot less messier. But what it important, is that the joint be filled with grease when you start to use it.
No matter how it gets there.
 
as crazy as this sounds. HD u-joints have no zerks, standard duty have zerks and are grease-able. Personally, on the HD ones I never add any additional grease, just install them.
 
I got a horrible clunking noise for a while with the hubs locked in once. It turned out to be a bad transmission mount that was allowing the driveshaft CV to bang on the crossmember. This was particularly problematic when heavy on the throttle or going up hill as the weight transferred to the back and the driveshaft ran downward because of front axle wrap.

So, a quick check would be to look for scoring/polishing on your CV and crossmember. If that turns out to be the problem, it's a cheap easy fix. If it's not the problem, it's a free and easy check. :)
 
Thanks for the insight/tips guys.

Thanks fordum for the ujoint explanation. My cheap parts store ones didn't have zerks IIRC. Do the spicer's?

Any u joint install tips? The last time around, i bough multple, in case some of the roller bearings fell over and got crushed during install. At $9 a joint, worth it. At $30/joint for the spicers, i better be confident i'm doing it right!

Hoping the beast fits in the new garage, and i'll tear into it tonight.

Need to do some serious checking to see what is going on.

Doubting TCase issues, as the noise is clearly making noise from the front.

And, the noise is there in full force when the Tcase is in 2high.

We shall see tonight.
 
I still think it's worth checking the trans mount. In 2High it would still make the noise for me simply by virtue of the fact that the hubs were still locked. If it's still making your noise with hubs unlocked, then you can probably completely disregard this post. :)
 
Mine sounded like that when it was a bad Cardan joint. I swore it was the hubs till the shaft exploded and bent my floorboard and knocked a hole in my tranny pan. It felt tight to the touch as well. And they are not cheap to replace.
 
As far as the Spicers are concerned, not a clue. Spicer is a big brand, and they make thousands of different parts.
Its not impossible that they make both grease and non-grease models.

As for install tips, if I was standing there, I'm sure I could give a few, but the basics are fairly simple, and any tips would be hard to explain.
The bearings should not fall out on the ground if the cup is well greased. Of course, if drop it, all bets are off.

Where you are most likely to have bearing misplacement problems, is during the install if you are driving the cap in.
Then, what usually happens is that one of the rollers falls over and gets under the end of the cross.
If the cross end has a grease groove as many of them do, and the roller gets in it, the joint will usually go together just fine, but be just a fraction too long for the clips to fit.
Problem is, that can happen without the roller being displaced if the yoke is bent slightly, so you can never be sure until you pull the joint back apart.

A vise will help if you have the shaft out, letting you press the caps in slowly and gently without pounding.

They make various U-joint install tools. They range from cheap to reasonable to HOLY CR*P! in price.
Buying one is a very subjective choice. Today, I personally would not. Because I have not installed a U-joint in any of my vehicles in 10 years. A combination of lower water levels, better roads, and a friend who has a shop and will do them for the price of the joint has made my needs change.

But, when I was changing them two or three times a hunting season, I would have paid big bucks for one.
Not because I needed one, you do them that often and you get pretty good, but it would have made life so much easier.

Like that special tool I have for removing factory spring type hose clamps. I just feel good every time I use it, remembering fights with vise grips.

Even today, if I could be sure I would have the shaft out of the truck and access to a vise, I might not buy a tool.
But, the ones that make it much easier to do them under the truck are worth it.

Getting back to the Spicer question, just look in the box, and follow any instructions is my best advice.
Or go to the spicer website and look up that model and see what they say about grease and install.
 
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