52 inch front swap without xover steering

[Shawns84]

Hey all,
I have seen numerous tutorials/trucks with the 52" swap. Every one of em has the crossover steering. I realize this is supposed to be a good mod, but its something that i would like to do down the road if i feel its necissary. The reason for this seems to be because the frontend gets moved 2-3 inches forward because of the front hanger. Now judging from the other holes in the body mount, if you move the hanger forward about 1.5-2 inches instead of the 4" with the L bracket in the front it would sit right in the 4 holes drilled in the body mount bracket. Correct me if im wrong, but this would locate the axle exactly where it is supposed to be without the need for crossover steering and without the need for moving the shackle? Is there a reason nobody has done this or am i a chevy pioneer ?
Also, adressing the width of the bushings for the front springs... Can the front spring bushings be put in the 52s to correct the width isssue?
Thanks,
shawn

 

[k5 krawler 50]

with the amount of flex the 52's provide, the push-pull steering would not be sufficient. This has been covered plenty of times around here, just do a quick search and you will find a ton of helpful info. Also on the bushings, offroad design offers some for the swap, and i've seen people use washers as spacers too.

 

[Shawns84]

but for relatively unflexy driving untill i get a 60?

 

[gmc4cw]

but for relatively unflexy driving untill i get a 60?

run your stock springs.

The spring hanger will not line up with the body mount the way you are thinking. the top of the spring hanger is curved up, the bottom of the body mount is also curved down. If you want to run 52's without moving the axle too much check out the B-52 brackets from www.DIY4X.com

 

[richheezee]

the spring mount will not fit in the four holes on the body mount, i tried it. they are pretty close but if you were able to force it to fit, the body mount or spring mount (i forget which) has a slight curve and might fubar the spring mount.
what you might be able do is make a new mount or buy the b52 kit that diy4x makes. i believe it has the adjustments to keep the axle in the stock location and keep the stock steering.
but you will have to live with not being able to steer when the driver side droops while offroading.
to fix that is to run a limiting strap on the driver side to inhibit droop which can lead to off camber situations offroad.
also the whole reason to run 52's is to benefit from the flex that the springs are known for.
just run some 64's in the rear and call it a day.

*edit* - i should have read the whole thread.

 

[CDA 455]

52 inch front swap without xover steering = Stupid move, period.

 

[Shawns84]

Who makes a crossover setup that you dont have to chop out the crossmember?

 

[chevysmithz71]

I thought you could get by without cutting the crossmember if you have a certain amount of lift?? Somewhere around the lines of 4" or more. This prevents flexing too much and hitting it. If your using stock 52's then you need to replace the member.

 

[dremu]

Who makes a crossover setup that you dont have to chop out the crossmember?

Everybody. Just means you need a bent draglink.

ORD, WFO, etc etc make bent draglinks.

-- A

 

[pvfjr]

52 inch front swap without xover steering = Stupid move, period.

Have you ever done it?

My buddy and I did a SFA swap on his c20, and turned it into a 4wd. We used 52's for the project, and installed a stock 4wd steering setup. It's being used every day as his work truck, and it works just fine. With the free parts truck we had, a home brew shackle flip out back, and 52's in front, we basically did a 4" lift and a SFA swap for free. Decided to swap it over to a stick while we were at it.

I know everyone likes to jump on the push/pull hating wagon and say that it won't work, but unless they've done it, I really wouldn't say their opinion counts for much. If you mount your 52's so that the axle is in the stock location, there's no difference 52's or regular lift springs at that point. My 6" Tuff Country EZ rides flex like CRAZY, no one ever said not to use stock steering with them. They used to make my steering all whacky when I was flexed out all the time, before I got crossover (which I did with the D60). Put the truck back on flat ground, and it's all good.

I say do what you want. Your truck won't explode. Don't buy crossover twice, and just wait until you put a D60 in. No reason to throw that kind of cash down twice.

 

[jekbrown]

My buddy and I did a SFA swap on his c20, and turned it into a 4wd. We used 52's for the project, and installed a stock 4wd steering setup. It's being used every day as his work truck, and it works just fine.

Driving around on the street won't be a problem... the problem occurs when you drop your drivers side tire about 2' during some good flex and loose ALL of your steering capability. Stock push/pull steering can't even handle a good set of flexible stock-length springs.... let alone the maaad droop that 52s are capable of.

I know everyone likes to jump on the push/pull hating wagon and say that it won't work, but unless they've done it, I really wouldn't say their opinion counts for much.

never shot myself in the foot either, but I know its not a good idea. I've wheeled a K5 with a 4" lift (stock length springs) and push-/pull steering.... and it blows once you flex it. Its fine if you don't care about being able to steer I guess...

If you mount your 52's so that the axle is in the stock location, there's no difference 52's or regular lift springs at that point.

Except that the 52s can droop a LOT more....

My 6" Tuff Country EZ rides flex like CRAZY, no one ever said not to use stock steering with them.

"no one" was wrong. Lets be totally clear here... you can run any kind of steering you want.... but if your rigs suspension has any flex to it, x-over is infinitely superior to push/pull.

They used to make my steering all whacky when I was flexed out all the time

that is the problem. On a cheeseball trail, its not that big a deal I suppose... just keep going until you get un-flexed... but what if being able to steer is the difference between a nasty endo-roll or not?

I say do what you want. Your truck won't explode. Don't buy crossover twice, and just wait until you put a D60 in. No reason to throw that kind of cash down twice.

I agree 100%.

j

 

[pvfjr]

I agree with all your retorts Jek. I had stock steering with a really flexy setup, and I know it sucked. But it only sucked when I was wheeling, and only if I drooped the drivers side. I never lost "all" steering capability though. I just acted funny, and full lock left wouldn't be what you'd expect, and vice versa. So if this guy says "but for relatively unflexy driving until I get a 60?" I say go ahead. I won't deny that crossover is superior, I have it and I know. My only point is that I think everyone goes a little overboard saying that it can't be done. They make it sound unsafe or irresponsible. Sure, a situation *could* arise where it would make the difference in and endo or not. But that could be said for a lot of the stock components on a rig. Does that mean you shouldn't go wheeling until you've completed building the "ultimate 4x4"? Nah, there's room on the trail for someone with a 4x4 at any level of capability. Just don't go where you don't belong, and you won't get yourself into trouble. Wheel smart, know your limits, be able to call it quits when something is over your head. That's the only way to go.

 

[TWISTEDJACK]

It just depends on the how far off the stock location your axle ends up whether you can get away with it on the street even, we tried it and it didn't work. turn sharp on direction and maybe 50% the other. We cut one drag link and then it just sucked in both directions.

 

[79k20350]

No reason not to get corossover now. You can use all same parts, save for the arm when you go 60. Then all you have to do is sell the 10 bolt. 44 stuff (and there are plenty of guys looking to buy those parts up)

 

[CDA 455]

Have you ever done it?

My buddy and I did a SFA swap on his c20, and turned it into a 4wd. We used 52's for the project, and installed a stock 4wd steering setup. It's being used every day as his work truck, and it works just fine. With the free parts truck we had, a home brew shackle flip out back, and 52's in front, we basically did a 4" lift and a SFA swap for free. Decided to swap it over to a stick while we were at it.

I know everyone likes to jump on the push/pull hating wagon and say that it won't work, but unless they've done it, I really wouldn't say their opinion counts for much. If you mount your 52's so that the axle is in the stock location, there's no difference 52's or regular lift springs at that point. My 6" Tuff Country EZ rides flex like CRAZY, no one ever said not to use stock steering with them. They used to make my steering all whacky when I was flexed out all the time, before I got crossover (which I did with the D60). Put the truck back on flat ground, and it's all good.

I say do what you want. Your truck won't explode. Don't buy crossover twice, and just wait until you put a D60 in. No reason to throw that kind of cash down twice.

You voted for Kerry, didn't you ?!!

And I've highlighted the two mang statements that leads me to believe you did.


Dude, I've been wheeling longer than you've been alive.
I would suspect, if you're consistent, to be an encyclopedia of what not to do because you've purposely did things wrong just so your opinions have validity.


BTW, how badly did you damage your fingers while you were checking the tension on the fan belts while the engine was running ?

 

[CDA 455]

I agree with all your retorts Jek. I had stock steering with a really flexy setup, and I know it sucked. But it only sucked when I was wheeling, and only if I drooped the drivers side. I never lost "all" steering capability though. I just acted funny, and full lock left wouldn't be what you'd expect, and vice versa. So if this guy says "but for relatively unflexy driving until I get a 60?" I say go ahead. I won't deny that crossover is superior, I have it and I know. My only point is that I think everyone goes a little overboard saying that it can't be done. They make it sound unsafe or irresponsible. Sure, a situation *could* arise where it would make the difference in and endo or not. But that could be said for a lot of the stock components on a rig. Does that mean you shouldn't go wheeling until you've completed building the "ultimate 4x4"? Nah, there's room on the trail for someone with a 4x4 at any level of capability. Just don't go where you don't belong, and you won't get yourself into trouble. Wheel smart, know your limits, be able to call it quits when something is over your head. That's the only way to go.

First you agree with Jason.

Then you reiterate your points previous.

Man, you must be a blast to off road with!

 

[54inches]

I My only point is that I think everyone goes a little overboard saying that it can't be done. They make it sound unsafe or irresponsible.

WARNING: GROSS GENERALIZATION AHEAD!!!!!


There seems to be alot of people on here that READ and do not WHEEL. I agree with your original point. Have YOU done it? That's why I try to ask, "For those that have/have not done this mod......"

Anyways, there is some great info in here! I'll keep reading instead of wheeling!

 

[pvfjr]

No I'm not a Kerry voter, I'm a vet. That wouldn't make much sense would it?

So why the personal attacks all the sudden? Can't a guy express some opinions about what has/hasn't worked for him now? I haven't called anyone or anything stupid, as you have. Let's not get out of hand here.

I don't really care how old you are, but I can respect your extensive wheeling experience. My age, however, does not make me ignorant on all subjects. You don't know me, don't try to stereotype me. Your extensive wheeling experience, however, is just wheeling experience. Which is great, if people are asking about what's best for wheeling. No one even asked him what purposes this truck is for though. If it's for utility use around town, or some light wheeling, he'll probably be fine. Not everyone here is on the same level as you. I figured with single digit posts, he's probably still cutting his teeth on the wheeling world, and we're probably not talking about a hardcore offroading rig here. You don't have to have crossover, especially if you can't afford to buy the steering arm and studs twice.

Also, WTH are you talking about fan belts for? You're confusing me.

 

[jekbrown]

yikes, lets relax people! I agree that from a cost-savings perspective, saving x-over until later (for a 60) is a good idea. Also, if you are only gonna drive on streets and/or gravel roads or whatever, almost any steering system will work... including push/pull with 52s.

I'm not 100% sure why someone would want to do a 52" spring swap when you really wouldn't be able to take advantage of its benefits (mad droop is pretty much the benefit)... but I guess if it was one step in the build progression, you could do it before you did x-over.

in any case, there is no reason for a perso attack in this thread...

j

 

[Shawns84]

I just gotta say that theres no reason to get on each others backs... Not everybody drives a full out off road or a full out street truck. Personally, im building mine to do both, get me to work, and be a wicked trail finder on the weekends. This also means that i wouldnt beat it as hard as a non insured trail only rig because i drive it on weekdays. No, i dont have a lot of experience with 4xs, but i do have a lot of experience with older chev cars, and their suspension (70s-80s g, h, f bodies). Not that they are anywhere near to each other but i understand binding, three and four links, leaf springs and the like. So ya, most of this is a learning experience. I understand that the push pull steering isnt the most optimal steering setup for extreme trail duty. Ill put it this way, there are more people around here using the stock setup than any custom setup. Obviously it works. Obviously crossover works better, but crossover has cons that kind of suck for a street driven truck. (mostly the swaybar thing a little of the dollar thing) I thank everybody for their opinions, I wanted different points of view, thats why i posted. I think my whole point was that i didnt want to move the axle, and i didnt want to change my steering. RIGHT NOW... Doesnt mean i cant do it later when im cranky about the way my sh!t works. Anyways, once again, thanks for the time to reply.