Yeah, you'd have to see it in person. The pic doesn't really do it justice IMO. Maybe it you could drop the whole chunk in a tub of diesel for a few months you might have a small chance. The cam/lifters is the killer I think.
CK5
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57 Pontiac "Zero Fox"
- Thread starter tRustyK5
- Start date
That engine would be a good test for a home made electrolosis tank..all you need is a big plastic tote or bin,some baking soda,scrap steel,and a battery charger...I've seen some badly rusted stuff off old farm tractors come out looking great in a few of the ones posted on another forum I frequent..
There's other forums?
None that are as good.
That works great. I've done it before.
We also did it at the plating shop, but on a commercial/production scale.
So Nick and I have been trying to get the old Pontaliniac to fire.
Well, no luck so far. Nick and I changed the oil out for fresh 10W30, double checked all connections got the camcorder going and gave it a spin with a splash of fuel in the carb. Nothing. Some more fuel, nothing. So, we pulled #1 plug and I cranked while Nick checked for spark. Good strong spark...OK, that's something. Another splash of fuel, backfire through the carb. Hmmmm.
Being a little curious I busted out the compression tester. 5 revs on and #1 was ~27 psi.
. Move to #2...35 psi. 
I feel it's turning over a bunch slower than it should be, so we hook up the jumper cables to my K5. #1 now reads almost 40 psi. I guess that's something. We put the batt charger on the '57 and went in for dinner. I originally figured that would be it for today. Nick went home and I broke out my manual and ran across a part mentioning lash needs to be adjusted anytime the valve train has been apart (it has been apart). OK, why not...
With the VC off I start with #1...except I have an exhaust valve opening. Awesome, I have the firing order on the cap 180 degrees out. So I re-thread the cap, then adjust all the valves. I busted out the compression tester again, and #1 is now 60 psi. For giggles I threw some more fuel into the carb and hit the key, and it made some starting noises but never caught. I'm gonna sleep on it and let that battery charge really good. I figure it might even get the compression up to~90 psi if it cranks at the right speed, and that will surely help it want to start better.
So, still no vid, but it's made more noise tonight than it has in 49 years.
Well, no luck so far. Nick and I changed the oil out for fresh 10W30, double checked all connections got the camcorder going and gave it a spin with a splash of fuel in the carb. Nothing. Some more fuel, nothing. So, we pulled #1 plug and I cranked while Nick checked for spark. Good strong spark...OK, that's something. Another splash of fuel, backfire through the carb. Hmmmm.
Being a little curious I busted out the compression tester. 5 revs on and #1 was ~27 psi.
. Move to #2...35 psi. I feel it's turning over a bunch slower than it should be, so we hook up the jumper cables to my K5. #1 now reads almost 40 psi. I guess that's something. We put the batt charger on the '57 and went in for dinner. I originally figured that would be it for today. Nick went home and I broke out my manual and ran across a part mentioning lash needs to be adjusted anytime the valve train has been apart (it has been apart). OK, why not...
With the VC off I start with #1...except I have an exhaust valve opening. Awesome, I have the firing order on the cap 180 degrees out. So I re-thread the cap, then adjust all the valves. I busted out the compression tester again, and #1 is now 60 psi. For giggles I threw some more fuel into the carb and hit the key, and it made some starting noises but never caught. I'm gonna sleep on it and let that battery charge really good. I figure it might even get the compression up to~90 psi if it cranks at the right speed, and that will surely help it want to start better.
So, still no vid, but it's made more noise tonight than it has in 49 years.
One part I have been hunting for is front signal lights. The original bumper has the housings still, in fixable condition, but no lenses. I have a sorta straight bumper off my parts car, and I now have several corners and bumper bullets. Last Thursday I was dumping the garbage at a body shop that I service once a week...but this time I notice a bumper fora 57 Pontiac behind the bin. I got out and had a look and sure as hell it has almost perfect signal light assemblies. The bumper itself is nothing great...so I asked if it was for sale, and ended up getting the whole thing for $50. Those signals are damn hard to find, and aren't repro'd...I'm calling it a win!
The plan tonight is to create a small fuel system, using a one liter container and some steel line from the parts car. I think it may want to start better with the carb properly full of fuel. Worth a shot anyways.
The plan tonight is to create a small fuel system, using a one liter container and some steel line from the parts car. I think it may want to start better with the carb properly full of fuel. Worth a shot anyways.
That's totally cool on the bumper find!
I'll take one point for the bumper.
I'll forfeit a point on getting the cantankerous bitch to fire.
I created a 1 liter fuel tank. After some cranking i found the line leaving the fuel pump not tight. Cleaned that mess up, tightened it up, and tried again. Nada. I pulled the line from the carb, grabbed a catch container and hit the flat head key once more...I see fuel spitting out. The fuel pump is doing something, is it enough? I don't really know. The carb allegedly came from a running 261. Maybe some gunk blocking something? I dunno. I know after a lot of cranking I'm not feeling the bowl is full and I'm not seeing accel pump spray.
I may just order a kit for this carb to remove one more variable from the list. I really want to hear this thing run, but I am concerned about the compression. Again i don't know the cause, but the fact is 60 ish psi makes for a real hard start. I may try some ether.
I'm open to ideas if anyone has any?
I'll forfeit a point on getting the cantankerous bitch to fire.
I created a 1 liter fuel tank. After some cranking i found the line leaving the fuel pump not tight. Cleaned that mess up, tightened it up, and tried again. Nada. I pulled the line from the carb, grabbed a catch container and hit the flat head key once more...I see fuel spitting out. The fuel pump is doing something, is it enough? I don't really know. The carb allegedly came from a running 261. Maybe some gunk blocking something? I dunno. I know after a lot of cranking I'm not feeling the bowl is full and I'm not seeing accel pump spray.
I may just order a kit for this carb to remove one more variable from the list. I really want to hear this thing run, but I am concerned about the compression. Again i don't know the cause, but the fact is 60 ish psi makes for a real hard start. I may try some ether.
I'm open to ideas if anyone has any?
I think you are on the right track with having a good look at the carb. Ether should make it fire up...but if the carb isn`t doing anything its probably not going to be to good for the engine.
Rene,many of the engines we "woke up" at the junkyard had low compression and didn't want to fire off right away...once we got fuel to the carb (we used an old lawnmower gas tank,gravity feed )-if it had spark and refused to fire up with some gas dribbled down the carb,we put some oil down the plug holes or even a little right down the carb throat,that usually sealed the pistons up well enough to get them to start up...they would smoke like hell till the excess oil burned off...
Most of them once they ran and warmed up awhile,would have much better compression,sometimes you could actually hear one or more cylinders start firing after it ran a few minutes,the rings seating in again,and valves freeing up probably..a few fouled the plugs from the oil and we had to replace them..
One car that was the hardest to get running after sitting in a building 5+ years,was an old Eagle Talon...turned over like the plugs were out--practically zero compression..we douched that thing with a few quarts of oil in the cylinders every day,tried to get it to start--killed the battery,charge it up overnight--after 4 days of this and "almost" starting,it finally caught and VROOOMM...(must have had a dam good starter too!)..
My co-worker slapped the dealer plate on it and went up the road about 10 miles leaving a smoke screen so thick no one could see...after a half hour of beating on it,it was running sweet..took that long to burn all the oil out of the exhaust and converter..
The car ended up being used for a daily driver ,he'd drive it 33 miles to work and back daily,used it almost 6 months...
Most of them once they ran and warmed up awhile,would have much better compression,sometimes you could actually hear one or more cylinders start firing after it ran a few minutes,the rings seating in again,and valves freeing up probably..a few fouled the plugs from the oil and we had to replace them..
One car that was the hardest to get running after sitting in a building 5+ years,was an old Eagle Talon...turned over like the plugs were out--practically zero compression..we douched that thing with a few quarts of oil in the cylinders every day,tried to get it to start--killed the battery,charge it up overnight--after 4 days of this and "almost" starting,it finally caught and VROOOMM...(must have had a dam good starter too!)..
My co-worker slapped the dealer plate on it and went up the road about 10 miles leaving a smoke screen so thick no one could see...after a half hour of beating on it,it was running sweet..took that long to burn all the oil out of the exhaust and converter..
The car ended up being used for a daily driver ,he'd drive it 33 miles to work and back daily,used it almost 6 months...
Rene,many of the engines we "woke up" at the junkyard had low compression and didn't want to fire off right away...once we got fuel to the carb (we used an old lawnmower gas tank,gravity feed )-if it had spark and refused to fire up with some gas dribbled down the carb,we put some oil down the plug holes or even a little right down the carb throat,that usually sealed the pistons up well enough to get them to start up...they would smoke like hell till the excess oil burned off...
Most of them once they ran and warmed up awhile,would have much better compression,sometimes you could actually hear one or more cylinders start firing after it ran a few minutes,the rings seating in again,and valves freeing up probably..a few fouled the plugs from the oil and we had to replace them..
One car that was the hardest to get running after sitting in a building 5+ years,was an old Eagle Talon...turned over like the plugs were out--practically zero compression..we douched that thing with a few quarts of oil in the cylinders every day,tried to get it to start--killed the battery,charge it up overnight--after 4 days of this and "almost" starting,it finally caught and VROOOMM...(must have had a dam good starter too!)..
My co-worker slapped the dealer plate on it and went up the road about 10 miles leaving a smoke screen so thick no one could see...after a half hour of beating on it,it was running sweet..took that long to burn all the oil out of the exhaust and converter..
The car ended up being used for a daily driver ,he'd drive it 33 miles to work and back daily,used it almost 6 months...
Most of them once they ran and warmed up awhile,would have much better compression,sometimes you could actually hear one or more cylinders start firing after it ran a few minutes,the rings seating in again,and valves freeing up probably..a few fouled the plugs from the oil and we had to replace them..
One car that was the hardest to get running after sitting in a building 5+ years,was an old Eagle Talon...turned over like the plugs were out--practically zero compression..we douched that thing with a few quarts of oil in the cylinders every day,tried to get it to start--killed the battery,charge it up overnight--after 4 days of this and "almost" starting,it finally caught and VROOOMM...(must have had a dam good starter too!)..
My co-worker slapped the dealer plate on it and went up the road about 10 miles leaving a smoke screen so thick no one could see...after a half hour of beating on it,it was running sweet..took that long to burn all the oil out of the exhaust and converter..
The car ended up being used for a daily driver ,he'd drive it 33 miles to work and back daily,used it almost 6 months...
You can't subtract points for fire unless you emptied a fire extinguisher, melted useful wires, or scared your wife or kids to death.
Guys, thanks for the suggestions and stories (Bob). It's a "school night"so I am not gonna get a shit ton done. Having to get up at 2;30 am makes working on the car at night a bit hard.
Anyways, I did get out there. The first goal was to get dry compression numbers on all 6 holes.
#1 dry, 60 psi
#2 dry, 100 psi
#3 dry, 0 psi
#4 dry, 0 psi
#5 dry, 0 psi
#6 dry, 0 psi
Uh...at this point I have to re-evaluate. I do recall a few lifters that seemed sticky and bottomed. Then I adjusted the valves. So, I pull off the VC again carefully. #1 is fine, #5 as I'm backing the adjuster off I'm seeing the valve come up. Given the compression numbers this wasn't a surprise. I set the adjusters so at TDC I have just a little rocker play. I know that's wrong, but I had to sorta make this shit up based on collapsed/sticky lifters.
So, after re-adjusting everything I tested compression again,
#1 dry, 65 psi
#2 dry, 110 psi
#3 dry, 65 psi
#4 dry, 75 psi
#5 dry, 90 psi
#6 dry, 60 psi
Well, that looks abysmal, but dramatically better!
Time to give each hole a squirt 
and try again.
#1 wet, 120 psi
#2 wet, 130 psi
#3 wet, 95 psi
#4 wet, 105 psi
#5 wet, 110 psi
#6 wet, 80 psi
These are almost good numbers, so I'm guessing the rings are sticky/gummy from sitting so long? I think the compression issue is within range to get this POS to fire, so it's time to move on to the various other problems. I have to go over my rubbish fuel system...not getting any fuel up to the carb. I'm going to blow out the steel fuel line (clogged maybe?) double check the filter, but it seemed OK.
That's it for tonight.
Anyways, I did get out there. The first goal was to get dry compression numbers on all 6 holes.
#1 dry, 60 psi
#2 dry, 100 psi
#3 dry, 0 psi
#4 dry, 0 psi
#5 dry, 0 psi
#6 dry, 0 psi
Uh...at this point I have to re-evaluate. I do recall a few lifters that seemed sticky and bottomed. Then I adjusted the valves. So, I pull off the VC again carefully. #1 is fine, #5 as I'm backing the adjuster off I'm seeing the valve come up. Given the compression numbers this wasn't a surprise. I set the adjusters so at TDC I have just a little rocker play. I know that's wrong, but I had to sorta make this shit up based on collapsed/sticky lifters.
So, after re-adjusting everything I tested compression again,
#1 dry, 65 psi
#2 dry, 110 psi
#3 dry, 65 psi
#4 dry, 75 psi
#5 dry, 90 psi
#6 dry, 60 psi
Well, that looks abysmal, but dramatically better!
Time to give each hole a squirt and try again.#1 wet, 120 psi
#2 wet, 130 psi
#3 wet, 95 psi
#4 wet, 105 psi
#5 wet, 110 psi
#6 wet, 80 psi
These are almost good numbers, so I'm guessing the rings are sticky/gummy from sitting so long? I think the compression issue is within range to get this POS to fire, so it's time to move on to the various other problems. I have to go over my rubbish fuel system...not getting any fuel up to the carb. I'm going to blow out the steel fuel line (clogged maybe?) double check the filter, but it seemed OK.
That's it for tonight.
haha!
It's gonna be dealing with fuel issues next. The carb I bought supposedly came off a running car...and with my luck will need a kit anyways. On the upside, it's fighting me every step of the way, so everything is cool. If it would have just started easily, it probably would have thrown a rod later...because when it goes easy it means I've forgotten something crucial, like oil., or gaskets,..
It's gonna be dealing with fuel issues next. The carb I bought supposedly came off a running car...and with my luck will need a kit anyways. On the upside, it's fighting me every step of the way, so everything is cool. If it would have just started easily, it probably would have thrown a rod later...because when it goes easy it means I've forgotten something crucial, like oil., or gaskets,..
After all that cleaning you did... the **** better run!
By far the sexiest looking non running engine I've ever had in my garage, here in Edmonton, this month. It's a record for sure!
