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6.2 swap+Banks sidewinder+propane VS HT383

mini_mull

mini_mull

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OK, I need some opinions from you diesel guys, I've been making plans to swap my 5.7L TBI out in favor of a GMPP HT 383 (340hp/435fllbs torque w/400+ftlbs from 2500-4000rpms), but have recently become interested in a 6.2 swap instead. The gas milage and the torque are what has drawn me in, but the lack of hp, and my lack of knowledge about diesels is what's making me hesitant. Here's my questions.

1. I figured by completely rebuilding a 6.2 and adding the banks sidewinder turbo kit and bullydog propane injection (and anything else you guys suggest) I would end up just shy of 300hp and somewhere between 510-600 ftlbs torque, is this correct for real world figures?

2. I've never driven a diesel. How would a setup like that feel, with almost twice as much torque as hp? If those numbers are correct they are similar to a new cummins or duramax, could I just test drive a new truck to feel the power, or are there to many things different on the new diesel engines to compare the way they drive (like the difference between carbs, tbi, and efi in gas engines)?

3. IYO, what would be more "fun" to drive, the 6.2 turboed w/propane or the HT383?

4. How much has everyone whose done the gas to diesel swap spent on the 6.2 itself, and then on everything else they used for the swap?

Any info is appreciated, I've searched through posts on turbo, propane, and a few on the swap, and learned a ton, but I'm hoping these questions are different enough to call for a new thread. Thanks in advance.
 
mini_mull said:
OK, I need some opinions from you diesel guys, I've been making plans to swap my 5.7L TBI out in favor of a GMPP HT 383 (340hp/435fllbs torque w/400+ftlbs from 2500-4000rpms), but have recently become interested in a 6.2 swap instead. The gas milage and the torque are what has drawn me in, but the lack of hp, and my lack of knowledge about diesels is what's making me hesitant. Here's my questions.

1. I figured by completely rebuilding a 6.2 and adding the banks sidewinder turbo kit and bullydog propane injection (and anything else you guys suggest) I would end up just shy of 300hp and somewhere between 510-600 ftlbs torque, is this correct for real world figures?

2. I've never driven a diesel. How would a setup like that feel, with almost twice as much torque as hp? If those numbers are correct they are similar to a new cummins or duramax, could I just test drive a new truck to feel the power, or are there to many things different on the new diesel engines to compare the way they drive (like the difference between carbs, tbi, and efi in gas engines)?

3. IYO, what would be more "fun" to drive, the 6.2 turboed w/propane or the HT383?

4. How much has everyone whose done the gas to diesel swap spent on the 6.2 itself, and then on everything else they used for the swap?

Any info is appreciated, I've searched through posts on turbo, propane, and a few on the swap, and learned a ton, but I'm hoping these questions are different enough to call for a new thread. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


With a good healthy 6.2, a sidewinder Banks turbo and the propane injection I can safely say more than 300HP but the torque is about right in your estimate.
That combo would be really fun to drive. I wouldn't compare it to the 383, 2 different beasts, to me a diesel is always more fun to drive.
:D
 
I figured by completely rebuilding a 6.2 and adding the banks sidewinder turbo kit and bullydog propane injection (and anything else you guys suggest) I would end up just shy of 300hp and somewhere between 510-600 ftlbs torque, is this correct for real world figures?
Click to expand...

I don't think you could get these numbers without putting more air into the engine than a Banks turbo could flow, and more fuel than your standard DB2 pump could flow. My guess would be more like 250 hp and 450-500 ft lbs at the crank.
 
My guess would be more like 250 hp and 450-500 ft lbs at the crank.
Click to expand...

I agree. You would might get a bit more with a 6.5 block and heads, lower the compression to 18.0:1, and use an early Cummins or Power Stroke turbo and run a bit more boost then the Banks will get you, or at least a later GM-8 turbo from a 6.5.
 
Yes, I forgot to mention the compression ratio. I think that should be a prerequisite for trying to make more than 15 psi of boost or so and adding anything like propane. The only thing that worries me about lowering the compression ratio would be the starting ability in cold weather, but I have no personal experience, maybe it is a non issue. With the standard CR pistons, I think the cylinder pressures would be dangerously high if trying to squeeze more power from a 6.2 than what a standard Banks Sidewinder kit would give you.
 
For everyone's information, Banks says 210 hp and 380 ft lbs at the rear wheels. The propane probably won't add more than 10% power, so my guess is probably pretty close.
 
I would also have to say that you won't be able to reach 300 hp with a 6.2L. In fact, I would say it would be darn near impossible without spending a ton on one-off upgrades and fuel injection. I know that Bill Heath had a race truck with one heck of a custom 6.2L. I don't recall what turbo he was using, but he built a custom fuel injection system using an inline pump off an 8 cyinder Ford diesel. Not very practical for the daily 6.2L driver.

I would say 250 hp at most, but probably closer to 225 hp with the upgrades you mention. I'm trying to be as honest as possible here.

With the extra cid of a 6.5L, a high-flow marine injection system, lower CR pistons, timing gear drive, intercooler, and custom turbo, you can reach 300 hp. But, you'll probably spend around $5000 to get there.

For example, I'm in the middle of my 6.2L buildup, and I'll have around $2900 invested when it's all said and done. I'll have an '82 6.2L block, lower CR pistons with ceramic coatings, timing gear drive, 4911 pump and turbo injectors, and some other goodies. That doesn't include the cost of the turbo and 4" exhaust I installed last year. I should be able to out-pull and out-run a stock 6.5L, though. I'm shooting for 200 or more HP. Seeing as the stock 6.2L has a weak rating of 130 to 155 HP, that's not too shabby. Hopefully my torque will be 400 +.

The 383 would be quicker and perhaps more "fun" to drive, depending on your definition of fun. But the 6.2L is way more cool, simpler to work on, and much longer lasting than the 383. Plus, you'll have nearly 20 mpg to work with, if geared properly.

Good luck whichever way you choose to go!

Casey
 
I thought that the IDI Fords used the same Standyne DB2 injection pump that the 6.2s used, and I know for a fact that the Power Strokes use the CAT HEUY fuel system, so what pump are you referring to?
Personally, I'd prefer the 6.2 to the HT383...but then I'm a diesel kind of guy.
 
Yes, IDI fords use a DB2, but they flow more fuel than a standard 6.2 DB2 as far as i know.

Im going to have to say that 300hp on a 6.2 is going to be a hard number to get to. Im sure it could be done, but you get into the realm of spending to much money. It would need lower compression pistons, which unless you bore a 599 block to a 6.5, are going to have to be custom. It would also pretty much require an intercooler to keep the EGT's down, again, a custom piece that costs quite a bit of money. Then there would be fueling issues. It just keeps adding up. I dont see more than 225hp unless you get into the realm of custom pistons, intercooler, pump mods, ect, even with propane injection.

A 6.5 would be easier to build IMHO, because you can use more stock marine parts in it to achieve the CR you want and fuel flow needed to make that kind of power. There has been more than one 300hp 6.5TD build.

The 383 may be more fun tooling arround town, but i would still rather have the diesel.
 
79Beast said:
I thought that the IDI Fords used the same Standyne DB2 injection pump that the 6.2s used, and I know for a fact that the Power Strokes use the CAT HEUY fuel system, so what pump are you referring to?
Personally, I'd prefer the 6.2 to the HT383...but then I'm a diesel kind of guy.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I wasn't talking about the Ford pickup diesel pumps. I looked up the information, and Bill Heath was running a twin-turbo 6.2L with 16.7:1 compression, a Bosch in-line fuel injection pump from a 9.0L Navistar V8 diesel (medium duty engine), intercooling via water injection, a TH400 tranny, and a 3.70 Ford rearend. This was all mounted in a 1976 GMC shortbed.

This truck ran the 1/4 mile in 11.42 seconds at 116.34 mph. The engine was dynoed at 582 hp at 4700 rpm, and 786 lb-ft of torque at 2650. Max. rpm was not governed but kept around 5100 rpm by the driver.

Bill later added nitrous and produced even more power, but on one run testing this system out, the rear end let go and the 6.2L went to the moon, running so fast that it bent all the valves, pushrods, and other valve train components. The tach recall showed 8460 rpm when it grenaded.

Sadly, the engine was stolen while it was torn apart, and he never built another one.

This information was taken from an article that Bill Heath wrote on the Diesel Page in 2001.

I guess my statement above about not being able to build a 300 hp 6.2L isn't entirely accurate, but you see what has to be done to reach or exceed that kind of power levels.



Casey
 
Holy crap!! 8500 rpm before it grenaded? :eek1: :eek1:

Those are some impressive numbers...:cool1:

Rene
 
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