64" spring install questions

[kauzenkaos]

im tryn to install these springs that i got from ord and i am comming up short. i hung the front and rear hangers as per stephens specs but the rear spring eye is a few inches short of reaching the shackle. should i force it in? i really dont want to wait till monday to call and ask

 

[Stomis]

Stuff her in. Thats what happens when you have a big arch like that, plus 0 weight.

Shackle flip ftw.

 

[kauzenkaos]

i was advised that a shackle flip with this setup causes the springs to be to flat. but trust me it was discussed.

 

[Stomis]

Unless your doing serious towing theres no reason not to get a flip and even then you probably shouldnt be towing what you are with a jacked up truck.

Whats overall lift goal? Cause if its 6in a 4in flip with 2in springs is NOT gonna give you flat springs. I dont mean to bash but it sounds like you were coerced into what made the vendor more money.

And whats wrong with close to flat springs? Leafs are all about down travel as it is.

O and to stay on the topic of helping you, I've never dicked with tension shackles but I could see how perhaps if theres the extreme of a spring change it may necessitate longer shackles.

 

[kauzenkaos]

from what i can remember i was told that if the springs were pushed past flat or inverted when flexing that it fatigues them faster and that this setup would give further droop and good compression when flexing while maintaining spring life. and about the vendor and money thing stephen at ord sold me everything he woulda got more money sellin me the shackle flip with flat springs. it all makes since to me except that when i installed the sh!tty ass tuff country kit i did not have to force the springs into the hangers

 

[Stomis]

from what i can remember i was told that if the springs were pushed past flat or inverted when flexing that it fatigues them faster and that this setup would give further droop and good compression when flexing while maintaining spring life. and about the vendor and money thing stephen at ord sold me everything he woulda got more money sellin me the shackle flip with flat springs. it all makes since to me except that when i installed the sh!tty ass tuff country kit i did not have to force the springs into the hangers

Look I dont wanna start a debate with you but theres a reason everyone goes with a shackle flip, and theres a reason ORD sells it. Its because a compression shackle is an upgrade over a tension shackle for flexing purposes.

Yes your spring life may be better but simply because that tension shackle will limit the springs travel without bumpstops.

I'm not tryin to knock a guy who builds these trucks everyday etc but I mean search build threads 19/20 guys shackle flip simply because it allows you to get lift with less spring arch which makes for more flex... I dont see how undoing all the r and d is gonna magically provide more flex.

If lift springs and tension shackles flexed better than 0-2in springs and a shackle flip then everyone wouldnt be using them. Food for thought.

 

[kauzenkaos]

Look I dont wanna start a debate with you but theres a reason everyone goes with a shackle flip, and theres a reason ORD sells it. Its because a compression shackle is an upgrade over a tension shackle for flexing purposes.

Yes your spring life may be better but simply because that tension shackle will limit the springs travel without bumpstops.

I'm not tryin to knock a guy who builds these trucks everyday etc but I mean search build threads 19/20 guys shackle flip simply because it allows you to get lift with less spring arch which makes for more flex... I dont see how undoing all the r and d is gonna magically provide more flex.

If lift springs and tension shackles flexed better than 0-2in springs and a shackle flip then everyone wouldnt be using them. Food for thought.

all i gotta say is if a 1000 people suck a d!ck that dont mean i should suck a d!ck 2 theres always another way of getting the same outcome. due to the fact that the springs are only half way in i can not debate whats gunna flex better but trust me for the money i spent if a shackle flip and junkyard springs puts me to shame then everone will know about it.

 

[K10 KRAWLER]

Look I dont wanna start a debate with you but theres a reason everyone goes with a shackle flip, and theres a reason ORD sells it. Its because a compression shackle is an upgrade over a tension shackle for flexing purposes.

Yes your spring life may be better but simply because that tension shackle will limit the springs travel without bumpstops.

I'm not tryin to knock a guy who builds these trucks everyday etc but I mean search build threads 19/20 guys shackle flip simply because it allows you to get lift with less spring arch which makes for more flex... I dont see how undoing all the r and d is gonna magically provide more flex.

If lift springs and tension shackles flexed better than 0-2in springs and a shackle flip then everyone wouldnt be using them. Food for thought.

I'm going to have to agree, I went from a pro comp 6'' lift to a DIY4X shackle flip and 63's, and ill never go back!

But When I did my 6'' procomp lift, I had to force the springs in, they were about the same distance away, I drove for 2 years without an issue, until I got rid of it. try to put a prybar under the lip and pull, and pull until you can get the bolt through.

 

[Stomis]

all i gotta say is if a 1000 people suck a d!ck that dont mean i should suck a d!ck 2 theres always another way of getting the same outcome. due to the fact that the springs are only half way in i can not debate whats gunna flex better but trust me for the money i spent if a shackle flip and junkyard springs puts me to shame then everone will know about it.

Lol alright I'll be waiting for that thread. I'm not trying to be a dick dude just trying to offer some insight.

As for your problem either A) the setup requires longer shackles which isnt unusual for lifted springs since there length can actually decrease due to arch or B) your hangars are to far forward.

 

[scrappyk5]

all i gotta say is if a 1000 people suck a d!ck that dont mean i should suck a d!ck 2 theres always another way of getting the same outcome. due to the fact that the springs are only half way in i can not debate whats gunna flex better but trust me for the money i spent if a shackle flip and junkyard springs puts me to shame then everone will know about it.

how bout ; If there are a 1000 mega hotties that fu%k, cook, and clean and cater to your every need in front of you that you could have or would you choose the frumpa dump sitting on the couch eating taco bell with flies roaming around her vananaa. that dont do chit but complain ?

thats more like it
My opinion is the shackle flip, and the lift springs. kinda evens itself out. I actually am enjoying my echoflip over just springs or lift blocks. I had all three on a truck and a blazer, and the flip is definatly mo betta.

 

[BLIDVL]

I had some BDS springs that were like that when I installed them, I ended up putting the front eye together first and ratchet strapping the rear off the bumper to stretch them out. It was still a PIA,hope this helps.

 

[doonjumper]

Wait till monday and call and ask. Maybe you stumbled across a different solution than the majority of the other people here.

 

[jms]

Listen to the wisdom of the board. Can't possibly build a truck without a shackle flip . Might as well scrap the truck now.

 

[kauzenkaos]

Like I said b4 If the guy that designed a shackle flip for ord tells me this Is a better setup then I'm going to try it if it turns out he was wrong than I'll take it up with him. I just wanted to know if it's normal to have to pull the springs into the shackle not if I should scrap 1300 dollars worth of springs and install a shackle flip.

 

[jms]

Look. The 'tribal knowledge' on here tends to develop tunnel vision after a while; an example of that is peeps telling you that a shackle flip is the only way to go. Both compression and tension shackles can be made to work very well. And as for building for the ultimate flex - that is a double-edged sword in itself.

 

[sweetk30]

yes a shackle flip is a great thing. i love it for 2 reasons. much smother ride and 4" lift all in one package.

yes a reg style suspension will be just fine. lots of people love it. and the bigger the arch on the springs the more it will pull the eye's closer together and make it harder to hook up and will keep the shackle at the wrong angle.

yes you can bandaid the shorter lift springs with a longer shackle in a stock suspension but that will net you less lift.

as for a shackle flip its not a new thing in the past 10 years. lots of vehicles came factory with it. the only thing new is the drop built in to it and the movement of the eye forward from stock to let everything bolt up and still keep a good shackle angle.

so yes each has its good / bad / questionable use. but thats up to you to make your choice in the end.

with yours its now sunday night. heck with it and wait till monday and call stephen and see what he says and go from there. possible someone mixed up your order and sent you the wrong springs.

edit : looking at your pics i see you moved the hanger back and the springs are real short. are you sure you are working with 64" springs. stock is 52 rear in k5 and were you moved the hanger to would do 56" rears. if you had 64" i bet you would have to long a spring. unless you moved the front hangers also. i think better pics of the whole setup would help also.

and last time i used ord template for a build i got a messed up range box redrill. so i would dubble check the measurements. eye to eye on the hangers on the frame should be around 63" . measured at the hangers not the shackle hole with it in the hanger.

 

[kauzenkaos]

thanks for all the info guys but a comealong and rubber mallet put them into position. i just got back from a short trip and this thing rides like a dream. didnt push it to hard still gotta get a new front driveshaft cauz my 700r4-4l80e swap added an extra 2 inches trans length.

 

[sweetk30]

glad to here you got it going.

 

[Stephen]

Yup, we (I) talked him out of spending more money on the flip.
The flip system works out great if really nice springs aren't in the budget but even a higher end flip/spring system like the setup on my 'burb (2.5" flip, 6" shackles, 3" TCI 64's) will only stroke 13" or so of vertical travel. A mild custom leaf pack with a tension shackle will run an easy 15" of vertical and I've designed springs that would put out near 20".
This makes bolting in just a spring look pretty good.

All this assumes mild lift heights, generally 6" and down.

Flattening a spring to bolt it in is not uncommon, we have used a jack under some heavy object to flatten them a little, then stick a spreader bar in there to install them. That works well for taking them off once they're on too. My first set of our springs had a 2x4 and a piece of 1" tubing dedicated to the job.

 

[kauzenkaos]

Yup, we (I) talked him out of spending more money on the flip.
The flip system works out great if really nice springs aren't in the budget but even a higher end flip/spring system like the setup on my 'burb (2.5" flip, 6" shackles, 3" TCI 64's) will only stroke 13" or so of vertical travel. A mild custom leaf pack with a tension shackle will run an easy 15" of vertical and I've designed springs that would put out near 20".
This makes bolting in just a spring look pretty good.

All this assumes mild lift heights, generally 6" and down.

Flattening a spring to bolt it in is not uncommon, we have used a jack under some heavy object to flatten them a little, then stick a spreader bar in there to install them. That works well for taking them off once they're on too. My first set of our springs had a 2x4 and a piece of 1" tubing dedicated to the job.

how you like them apples. lol. just wanted to say thanks again! you were right great ride and tons of flex (passed the forklift test). driveshaft will be here tomorrow so hopefully after work i can take this thing out and really test it.