700R4 after engine swap

[lobsterpimp]

Hey guys,

I just finished swapping engines in my 1989 K1500 305, with a 700R4 and a NP 241 T-case. I pulled out the tranny and t-case while swapping the engine. I got it all back together today, and now she struggles to move when put in gear. I ran it for about 15 minutes at idle, before I realized that the 5 quarts of tranny fluid i put in went somewhere else (T-case or torque converter). So I added another 6 quarts until it came up on the stick right (extra deep aftermarket tranny pan).

I guess my question is why is she so weak. When I put it in gear it will lurch forward in idle, but when I hit the gas there is a loud knocking ( I think....open headers make it hard to hear right) and she won't speed up, actually feels like the truck wants to cut off. On a slight incline, she won't go at all.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've been sifting thru posts for a couple hours, I'll sift some more tonight.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Did you adjust the tv cable?

 

[Thunder]

Besides the TV cable adjustment....
Did you pull out the torque convertor when you removed the trans? If so. When you reinstalled did you make sure the torque convertor was all the way seated. It sounds like the TC may not be seated all the way in the trans. If it does not seat all the way it wont drive the pump.

 

[lobsterpimp]

I installed an new TV cable while the tranny was out. I did a half arse adjustment on the tv cable, by holding it to WOT with my hand. I will get someone to push the pedal and reset it. But will the TV cable keep me from going more than 5 mph. I thought that was for high speed stuff.

As for the Torque converter, that was a thought that I had, but was hoping it was something else. If the TC wasn't seated, would I get any movement. The truck will move, just not much, like 2 or 3 MPH.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I installed an new TV cable while the tranny was out. I did a half arse adjustment on the tv cable, by holding it to WOT with my hand. I will get someone to push the pedal and reset it. But will the TV cable keep me from going more than 5 mph. I thought that was for high speed stuff.

The tv cable controls line pressure and will smoke the trans in very short order if its not adjusted properly.

A misadjusted tv cable will cause slipping.

 

[lobsterpimp]

I understand that the tv cable is very important, I do not mean to discount that, and I appreciate the advice, I'm sure it needs adjusting. But, I would think that even with no tv cable I should be able to drive more than 3 miles per hour.

I will readjust the tv cable and check the torque converter tomorrow.

Quick question, with the tranny mounted to the engine, and the torque converter un bolted, should I be able to turn the torque converter by hand? During my install, I had to back off the bellhousing mounting bolts to be able to turn the torque converter, so I could line up the holes (flywheel to TC).

 

[driney]

I don't think the torque converter should wedge against the flywheel. As I recall, I could bolt the transmission up and still move the torque converter to line up with the flywheel.

 

[lectric80]

I understand that the tv cable is very important, I do not mean to discount that, and I appreciate the advice, I'm sure it needs adjusting. But, I would think that even with no tv cable I should be able to drive more than 3 miles per hour.

I will readjust the tv cable and check the torque converter tomorrow.

Quick question, with the tranny mounted to the engine, and the torque converter un bolted, should I be able to turn the torque converter by hand? During my install, I had to back off the bellhousing mounting bolts to be able to turn the torque converter, so I could line up the holes (flywheel to TC).

You should be able to turn the torque converter by hand, and even move it away from the flywheel about an inch. If you cannot do this, it is most likely that the TC is not seated properly. This means you may have destroyed the pump by running it this way. Just a warning, but I would be for pulling that trans out and checking the TC seating.

When I broke the TV cable on my Astro, I could drive but shifting was really quick. I would go to third gear by the time I hit 20 MPH, so it is pretty unlikely that it would be causing what you are seeing.

 

[southernspeed]

I understand that the tv cable is very important, I do not mean to discount that, and I appreciate the advice, I'm sure it needs adjusting. But, I would think that even with no tv cable I should be able to drive more than 3 miles per hour.

I will readjust the tv cable and check the torque converter tomorrow.

Quick question, with the tranny mounted to the engine, and the torque converter un bolted, should I be able to turn the torque converter by hand? During my install, I had to back off the bellhousing mounting bolts to be able to turn the torque converter, so I could line up the holes (flywheel to TC).

There will be a gap between the converter and flex plate if you push the converter all the way back. You can turn them with ease when unbolted from the flex plate. Sounds like it's not seated properly.

Adjust TV cable by holding TB open by hand as you did, NOT by using the the throttle peddle.

With your TV cable disco'd you'll be able to drive quite normally although it'll slip like hell if you give it anything more than light throttle.

Did you run it through all the gears several times whilst stationary but engine running when you did the fluid level?

 

[lobsterpimp]

I was afraid of that, thanks for the info guys. I slept in too late today to be able to work on it (gotta watch the 5year old). So I guess I'll drop the tranny late tonight or tomorrow. Will there be any visible signs of damage to the pump to look for when I drop the tranny?

Did you run it through all the gears several times whilst stationary but engine running when you did the fluid level?

Yeah I stopped in each gear while doing fluid level fill, and check.

 

[southernspeed]

I was afraid of that, thanks for the info guys. I slept in too late today to be able to work on it (gotta watch the 5year old). So I guess I'll drop the tranny late tonight or tomorrow. Will there be any visible signs of damage to the pump to look for when I drop the tranny?



Yeah I stopped in each gear while doing fluid level fill, and check.

Unfortunately the dogs that engage are within the oil bearing part of the trans so if it's chewed it up at all you'll have to strip it down and make sure it's totally clean. Firstly though check the spigot on the converter and see if the engaging dogs are chewed. Then look up inside the pump (take the oil seal out) and see if the pump dogs are chewed. If by some miracle they're ok then your laughing. Put a new seal in and fit it up properly.
Good luck.

 

[lobsterpimp]

Is there a good book about the 700R4 you could recommend. This is the 3rd one I've been involved with, and I just don't know much about them beyond removing and installing (which I'm not too good at) and filter/fluid change. Now I have 3 chevy pick-ups all with the 700R4.

 

[ryoken]

Is there a good book about the 700R4 you could recommend. This is the 3rd one I've been involved with, and I just don't know much about them beyond removing and installing (which I'm not too good at) and filter/fluid change. Now I have 3 chevy pick-ups all with the 700R4.

you want the ATSG book...

I'd bet now that you've tried to drive it, the pump is toast...

it's a good idea to have the pump alignment tool for doing the pump

and the right puller

 

[JPMSK5]

Yep I bet there is pump damage, you can buy reman pumps for the 700r4, you dont have to replace the whole trans. The bushing in the pump will get loose and push out the front seal and the only way to fix it is to install a reman pump. TCI has specs on the website for the clearance between the TC and flexplate, with the TC not bolted there should be a good 1/4in gap to the flexplate and spin freely by hand atleast in one direction

 

[lobsterpimp]

Thanks again guys...... I guess.... Sure would be nice to get some good news, but I guess the truth is the truth. Don't they make a bottle of stuff I can pour in and fix my problem...... Don't get excited, that was a joke. But seriously, I appreciate all the help and advice. Hopefully get to drop the tranny tomorrow, and begin the painful process.

 

[JPMSK5]

Thanks again guys...... I guess.... Sure would be nice to get some good news, but I guess the truth is the truth. Don't they make a bottle of stuff I can pour in and fix my problem...... Don't get excited, that was a joke. But seriously, I appreciate all the help and advice. Hopefully get to drop the tranny tomorrow, and begin the painful process.

I tried that last week. I put in a bottle of Lucas Trans, to see if my 700r4 would stop leaking. Looked like a seal leak, but not me, tore it down and pulled the seal, inspected, installed new seal, found no problems, stuck some paper towels in the TC and blow gun, found the pump drive was almost broken off my TC.

 

[lobsterpimp]

Well I finally pulled it all apart again....I am getting faster at it. When I got the tranny out, I peaked in past the front seal, and the dogs looked ok (didn't pull the seal). And the notches on the TC looked good too. So I re-seated the tc and bolted it all back together. This time I had to pull the TC forward about an inch to mate with the flywheel (which I think someone said was about the right distance). Still a few things to do tomorrow before the test. Wish me luck.

 

[lectric80]

Definately sounds a little closer, but I still wouldn't bet that you don't have pump damage. Were both of the pump teeth there? I am talking two small steel teeth that stick out from the third TC gear. The TC engages these as well as the third shaft, if they are broken the pump needs to be replaced.

 

[lobsterpimp]

Not sure what you are talking about (my book is en route) but the truck acts the same as it did. Not enough power to get out of a mud puddle. That added to the fact that the garage I was working in, I've been encouraged to get out of (Long story, not my fault, but owner of business is firing his son and the only other employee, so tension is high.)

Since I can't drive it out of there, I think I'm gonna get a rollback to come and take it to a affordable local mechanic. This started out as a $400 truck, now I have over $2000 into it. I'm feeling a bit sick about the whole deal now.

I'll tell the mechanic all the details, and your suggestions. One other thing... Today when I tried to drive it, it kept stalling out. Once or twice (when I was mad) I stomped it, and it took right off, but it didn't last.

Thanxs guys, you've all been a great help on this sad day.

 

[southernspeed]

Not sure what you are talking about (my book is en route) but the truck acts the same as it did. Not enough power to get out of a mud puddle. That added to the fact that the garage I was working in, I've been encouraged to get out of (Long story, not my fault, but owner of business is firing his son and the only other employee, so tension is high.)

Since I can't drive it out of there, I think I'm gonna get a rollback to come and take it to a affordable local mechanic. This started out as a $400 truck, now I have over $2000 into it. I'm feeling a bit sick about the whole deal now.

I'll tell the mechanic all the details, and your suggestions. One other thing... Today when I tried to drive it, it kept stalling out. Once or twice (when I was mad) I stomped it, and it took right off, but it didn't last.

Thanxs guys, you've all been a great help on this sad day.

So is this an engine problem or a trans problem? If your motor is real lame for some reason it won't go anywhere with an auto box. Is it actually running ok?