Just to establish a frame of reference here:
Do you consider that Apache 355 to be quiet in that sound clip?
-G
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
Just to establish a frame of reference here:
Do you consider that Apache 355 to be quiet in that sound clip?
-G
I have had adventures in making things quite.
I'm not sure the level you want to get to Greg but sometime ago I helped a friend build his ultimate sleeper. Very built 454.
It originally had a semi conventional exhaust on it.
Way too loud for my buddy. I mean it was supposed to be a sleeper.
To get it sounding very much like a stock motor that is really quite he replaced headers with Sanderson manifolds/headers used 2 gauge thicker tubing in his exhaust. That alone made a huge difference. Used 1 resonator and 2 mufflers. It was a dual 3" setup.
This thing was really quite like you really had to listen at idle. He knows he gave up some power but it can't really be a sleeper if you can hear the ratty big block.
I think to get to the level you want you need to assume your giving up some power. I would just do your resonator plan find the quietest mufflers you can and run with it. Just having headers will make it louder than with thick cast iron manifolds.
The other thing with exhaust is simply the fact you don't know if it's going to work for you till your driving the truck. Leave room for changes put it together and move on
I'm not sure the level you want to get to Greg but sometime ago I helped a friend build his ultimate sleeper. Very built 454.
It originally had a semi conventional exhaust on it.
Way too loud for my buddy. I mean it was supposed to be a sleeper.
To get it sounding very much like a stock motor that is really quite he replaced headers with Sanderson manifolds/headers used 2 gauge thicker tubing in his exhaust. That alone made a huge difference. Used 1 resonator and 2 mufflers. It was a dual 3" setup.
This thing was really quite like you really had to listen at idle. He knows he gave up some power but it can't really be a sleeper if you can hear the ratty big block.
I think to get to the level you want you need to assume your giving up some power. I would just do your resonator plan find the quietest mufflers you can and run with it. Just having headers will make it louder than with thick cast iron manifolds.
The other thing with exhaust is simply the fact you don't know if it's going to work for you till your driving the truck. Leave room for changes put it together and move on
BACK TO FUEL TANK DISCUSSION....
(Photo of rear frame to show available space behind quarter panels and frame horns)
So.... I found an ATL fuel cell that would work perfectly between the framerails (approx 28" X 17" X 10")... But it was only around 18 gallons.......and cost $1400!!!!
My newest thought was that instead of trying to build a LONG tank to gain capacity, I could add two small "saddle" tanks on the outside of the framerails on either side of the main center tank. These would be about 8 gallons each and would be pretty small (19" X 10" X 10") so they would tuck up nice and high and also wouldn't weight much even when full of fuel (~45lbs)
One cool thing about doing a triple-tank configuration is that I can drop the OEM filler neck straight down into the left-side tank, instead of trying to get hoses halfway across the truck to reach the center tank. This is always a major headache on the 1st Gens. The other nice thing is that all 3 tanks are reasonably sized, so I can build them myself and feel confident that they are simple enough to fabricate successfully. Even building 3 tanks, I should be able to come in WAY cheaper than $1400 (for only 18 gallons)
The challenging part is how the share fuel between the three tanks so that they all fill up equally. It seems like a small 1/2" or 3/4" tube connecting the tanks at the very bottom would allow fuel to stay level during fill ups across all three tanks.
I think I've figured out a mounting scheme that would work, and with a beefy skid plate underneath, I think I can make it safe enough....
-G
(Photo of rear frame to show available space behind quarter panels and frame horns)
So.... I found an ATL fuel cell that would work perfectly between the framerails (approx 28" X 17" X 10")... But it was only around 18 gallons.......and cost $1400!!!!
My newest thought was that instead of trying to build a LONG tank to gain capacity, I could add two small "saddle" tanks on the outside of the framerails on either side of the main center tank. These would be about 8 gallons each and would be pretty small (19" X 10" X 10") so they would tuck up nice and high and also wouldn't weight much even when full of fuel (~45lbs)
One cool thing about doing a triple-tank configuration is that I can drop the OEM filler neck straight down into the left-side tank, instead of trying to get hoses halfway across the truck to reach the center tank. This is always a major headache on the 1st Gens. The other nice thing is that all 3 tanks are reasonably sized, so I can build them myself and feel confident that they are simple enough to fabricate successfully. Even building 3 tanks, I should be able to come in WAY cheaper than $1400 (for only 18 gallons)
The challenging part is how the share fuel between the three tanks so that they all fill up equally. It seems like a small 1/2" or 3/4" tube connecting the tanks at the very bottom would allow fuel to stay level during fill ups across all three tanks.
I think I've figured out a mounting scheme that would work, and with a beefy skid plate underneath, I think I can make it safe enough....
-G
hmmm, sounds like an interesting idea. I'm liking it so far.
Any concern about side impacts?
Any concern about side impacts?
Yes.
The ones tucked op into the quarter panels are definitely more vulnerable than the center tank surrounded by the framerails....
I still have the option to have bladders custom-built by ATL, or some kind of low-tech thick steel vertical (and speedholed) protective plating.
I want to get the table saw out into the driveway and build a few quick MDF boxes to test my idea.
-G
So how would the little tanks transfer. Are they gonna be higher or will just a large hose connect all 3.
Btw I like multiple tanks. Good solution
Does the 3 tank system leave room for exhaust
Btw I like multiple tanks. Good solution
Does the 3 tank system leave room for exhaust
Working on it now.... Table saw deployed!
Saddle tanks definitely need to be more triangular than rectangular to clear the tire at full stuff, but I think I can still eek-out 7+ gallons apiece.
Pictures to come.
-G
Are those saddle tanks going to eat up exhaust space?
okie89
ducktape, bailing wire, and rubber....
Just read this novel in a week! WOW just WOW... 
Hey Greg, I think to fill them all efficiently from one tank you will need way more than just a 1/2" hose, you will need at least a 1", I'd use a 1.5" hose at the bottom, plus a vent hose in the top of each tank connecting to the center as well. Filling fills the fuel really fast, and you will hate it if it takes 30 minutes to fuel up while you wait. Many stations will flow fuel into the tank way faster than gravity will with the same size hose, so I would want double the size of the fill spout or more.
The only risk is you are creating more leak paths at the bottom of the tank this way, but if you use reliable connections it should be fine. No different than most racing cells with AN outlets at the bottom.
The only risk is you are creating more leak paths at the bottom of the tank this way, but if you use reliable connections it should be fine. No different than most racing cells with AN outlets at the bottom.
2016.06.16 - UPDATE! - 3-PIECE FUEL TANK...!!!!
It's working...
It's basically a 36 Gallon design in 3 separate compartments. The main tank (Center) is 20.8G... and the two side tanks are 7.6G each.
The total depth of the tanks is only 10" and 2" sits above the frame / crossmembers.... so it ends up being a VERY low-profile design.
Instead of trying to sneak the exhaust out behind the tire at a 45-degree angle (after the axle but before the tank)... it might be easier to just use the dead space under the framerails.
PROS: Easy to build, sits up high, can be protected by a massive skidplate that the tank is getting so it will never get crushed, can still turn 90-degrees (after the tank) for a "stock" side exit under the rear bedside area.
CONS: Will make it harder to connect tanks together with fuel hoses for shared fuel, might get too hot (even with ceramic coatings), could create a lot of rattles against tank if not carefully executed.
Another shot that gives a sense of the space it needs, and how it tucks-in to the small dead spaces in the rear corners of the truck.
Here's the view from underneath (at actual ride height) with a bedside installed temporarily.... The bottom of the tank sits 31" off the ground and is completely invisible when the truck is viewed from the side. Here you can see the 3" exhaust sneaking out from under the framerail, and it could easily turn to create a side-exit design...
There is still some fine-tuning of dimensions needed, but each of these boxes is pretty small and manageable to build and because they are relatively simple shapes, I should be able to bend flanges on them to wrap the corners and sides to add a bunch of strength. My only remaining concern is the impact protection for the side tanks in an accident. I think they will need vertical "skid plate" protection with some kind of thick steel plate.... and maybe also a safety bladder?
-G
It's working...
It's basically a 36 Gallon design in 3 separate compartments. The main tank (Center) is 20.8G... and the two side tanks are 7.6G each.
The total depth of the tanks is only 10" and 2" sits above the frame / crossmembers.... so it ends up being a VERY low-profile design.
Instead of trying to sneak the exhaust out behind the tire at a 45-degree angle (after the axle but before the tank)... it might be easier to just use the dead space under the framerails.
PROS: Easy to build, sits up high, can be protected by a massive skidplate that the tank is getting so it will never get crushed, can still turn 90-degrees (after the tank) for a "stock" side exit under the rear bedside area.
CONS: Will make it harder to connect tanks together with fuel hoses for shared fuel, might get too hot (even with ceramic coatings), could create a lot of rattles against tank if not carefully executed.
Another shot that gives a sense of the space it needs, and how it tucks-in to the small dead spaces in the rear corners of the truck.
Here's the view from underneath (at actual ride height) with a bedside installed temporarily.... The bottom of the tank sits 31" off the ground and is completely invisible when the truck is viewed from the side. Here you can see the 3" exhaust sneaking out from under the framerail, and it could easily turn to create a side-exit design...
There is still some fine-tuning of dimensions needed, but each of these boxes is pretty small and manageable to build and because they are relatively simple shapes, I should be able to bend flanges on them to wrap the corners and sides to add a bunch of strength. My only remaining concern is the impact protection for the side tanks in an accident. I think they will need vertical "skid plate" protection with some kind of thick steel plate.... and maybe also a safety bladder?
-G
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
You give up some fuel capacity, but I could see the sides of those tanks angled out as they get lower, that way there's more room for the exhaust to move around. I also agree with Heath on the hose connection. Most gas pumps auto shut off when they detect back pressure and although the gas pump is spitting out fuel under pressure you're stuck with gravity in getting fuel from one tank into the others. I'd use as big a hose as you can fit, maybe a couple of them.
Is it possible to just make it one big tank with notches for the frame? Then you can have several support rails inside the tank with a bunch of half holes along the bottom of the support rails, and a baffle around the pickip to keep the pickup submerged. You would still need some small vent lines connecting the tops with those large notches, but it should reduce the fill issues to almost nothing.
I don't think it's a good plan to run the exaust that close to 3 different tanks and have 4 possible sides of exhaust contact unless you wrap the exhuast or put heat shields outside the tank or something there. Not only is there the issue with heating the fuel, but if there ever is an accident in a rear corner, not only is it going to crush the tank, but it's going to crush the fuel tanks around an exhaust tube.
I don't think it's a good plan to run the exaust that close to 3 different tanks and have 4 possible sides of exhaust contact unless you wrap the exhuast or put heat shields outside the tank or something there. Not only is there the issue with heating the fuel, but if there ever is an accident in a rear corner, not only is it going to crush the tank, but it's going to crush the fuel tanks around an exhaust tube.
Definitely need to connect them with vents at the top like on the large capacity Titan tanks and such or they will not fill correctly. Could just run three vent lines all together to fill neck or something. As far as connecting them on the bottom. Semi's used to just run a -8 or maybe -10 hose at the biggest across a cross member to connect dual side mount tanks. They always put a gate valve at each end for ease of tank removal later on but you have way less capacity. The idea of building one big notched tank to sit over the frame rails sounds like a good one, it eliminates the vent issue as long as the floor clears it.
As far as the tail pipes, what about solid mounting them between the tanks to eliminate rattles and then run something like one of those nice stainless flex pipes to connect the solid mounted part to the rest .
Greg I'm seeing a couple problems.
First off with the exhaust coming straight out the back all your exhaust fumes are gonna get sucked into the truck. Really common problem with guys who have jeeps. But I have seen it plenty on other trucks like broncos and blazers too.
With the exhaust straight out the back your gonna be smelling it all the time.
It will have to turn out to the side
Second those outside tanks are probably in the spot that an off road truck hits the second most. At a very minimum I would taper them up to the outside edge. Or just make em smaller. A skidplate is gonna eat up even more room.
I also echo what Heath has said your looking at a 1" line connection between the outboard and center tanks to fill at any reasonable speed. It looks like that connection should be over the frame rails. I think a full fill up with that configuration might take a decent amount of time.
And the exhaust that close the the tanks in a semi enclosed space with very little airflow I could see it getting pretty warm especially on a long road drive
First off with the exhaust coming straight out the back all your exhaust fumes are gonna get sucked into the truck. Really common problem with guys who have jeeps. But I have seen it plenty on other trucks like broncos and blazers too.
With the exhaust straight out the back your gonna be smelling it all the time.
It will have to turn out to the side
Second those outside tanks are probably in the spot that an off road truck hits the second most. At a very minimum I would taper them up to the outside edge. Or just make em smaller. A skidplate is gonna eat up even more room.
I also echo what Heath has said your looking at a 1" line connection between the outboard and center tanks to fill at any reasonable speed. It looks like that connection should be over the frame rails. I think a full fill up with that configuration might take a decent amount of time.
And the exhaust that close the the tanks in a semi enclosed space with very little airflow I could see it getting pretty warm especially on a long road drive
