82 stepside. Thoughts and crazy ideas

[KirsL]

So we had a cool morning here today, mid 40s. So figured I start the truck and let her warm up a bit before leaving. Started just fine. Turned defrost on and my seat heater and go inside.
I come back out 10 minutes later and find this.

Best that I can figure, the draw tube on the drive side lost prime but the passenger side didn’t. The lift pump moves enough fuel to hear it if you remove the fuel cap and put your ear by it. Didn’t hear anything on the driver tank. But the engine was still sending return fuel to the T and going to both tanks. That I just fully fueled the night prior. It found a loose spot by the sending unit gasket and started dumping fuel like crazy.
So after about an hour of checking things I decided to pinch off the engine return line going to the driver side tank. Given the tools on hand being home, it was the least invasive thing to try.

Nothing like zip-tieing a pair of snap-on channel locks under the truck to drive 20 miles .

So once I got done with work I dug deeper into the issue. The only way I could get the driver side to prime and pull fuel was to restrict the flow of the passenger tank. And I think what created the issue is the placement of the Y blocks. They sit around the tanks center line. Most semis that use a duel feed setup have the block above the tanks. But I don’t have the room to make that happen.
So for the time being. I put her back to a single tank.

 

[Truckman4life]

Drawing from the easiest tank to pull from I'm guessing.

 

[KirsL]

Drawing from the easiest tank to pull from I'm guessing.

Pretty much what I figured as well.

 

[Truckman4life]

I wonder if you drew from the left tank and also returned to the left tank but hooked the original feed port on that sender to the feed port on the other sender and had the pass tank vented if it would siphon over on it's own as the tank level went down?

Probably the easiest way to connect them would be to add a bottom sump to each tank and just install a crossover hose and run everything off one tank to the engine. I would worry about that hanging low and not sure you could just run a crossover with the driveshaft but maybe.
https://rudysdiesel.com/i-30499088-rudys-dual-o-ring-fuel-tank-sump-kit-w-holesaw.html Cheapest one I found.

 

[KirsL]

I wonder if you drew from the left tank and also returned to the left tank but hooked the original feed port on that sender to the feed port on the other sender and had the pass tank vented if it would siphon over on it's own as the tank level went down?

Probably the easiest way to connect them would be to add a bottom sump to each tank and just install a crossover hose and run everything off one tank to the engine. I would worry about that hanging low and not sure you could just run a crossover with the driveshaft but maybe.
https://rudysdiesel.com/i-30499088-rudys-dual-o-ring-fuel-tank-sump-kit-w-holesaw.html Cheapest one I found.
View attachment 394633

That could work. I considered doing some kind of balance line between the tanks near the bottom of them. But determined the line would be too exposed and get too close to the exhaust to function properly. That sump setup would hang down even further then the line would have. Now I’m not doing any rock crawling but I tend to air on the side of protection when running lines.

Now I have been thinking that if I run a line between the 3/8 ports on the sending units. The tanks may balance themselves a little bit. I would still have a draw tube in both tanks. But that line could let stay kinda even. I’m just not sure if the fuel will go up the old draw tube across the truck and then down the other old draw tube.
The port I’m talking about has the short hose with the bolt clamped into it.

I’d really like to get the duel feed setup working properly. It’s different and would save me some money vs making a high flow tank selector valve. Which I’ve already priced all the parts out for cause I’m crazy like that.

 

[KirsL]

Welp had to have the old girl towed back to the shop.
On the drive home everything seemed to be going good. I was cruising around 65 and rolled into the throttle to pass someone. Nothing crazy, just enough to pass. And the trans tried to downshift from 4th to 3rd. So I backed out of it a little and all seemed ok. A few miles later I come upon a circle that right after has a decent little hill climb. So after going around the circle I turn slightly to head up the hill. Again get into the throttle nothing crazy, about halfway up the rpms start climbing but I slowing down.

I get onto a side street with a decent size parking lot. There I find that I still have 1st and 2nd gears forward and still have reverse. I check the fluid, not even on the dip stick. I look under the truck, not covered in trans fluid so it has recently leaked out. I had a few quarts on hand so I dump them in, no change. 1st and 2nd feel normal. Soon as it try’s to hit 3rd, you get nothing.

I’ll dig deeper into it on Friday, but I’m thinking it’s going to be expensive.

 

[campfire]

Welp had to have the old girl towed back to the shop.
On the drive home everything seemed to be going good. I was cruising around 65 and rolled into the throttle to pass someone. Nothing crazy, just enough to pass. And the trans tried to downshift from 4th to 3rd. So I backed out of it a little and all seemed ok. A few miles later I come upon a circle that right after has a decent little hill climb. So after going around the circle I turn slightly to head up the hill. Again get into the throttle nothing crazy, about halfway up the rpms start climbing but I slowing down.

I get onto a side street with a decent size parking lot. There I find that I still have 1st and 2nd gears forward and still have reverse. I check the fluid, not even on the dip stick. I look under the truck, not covered in trans fluid so it has recently leaked out. I had a few quarts on hand so I dump them in, no change. 1st and 2nd feel normal. Soon as it try’s to hit 3rd, you get nothing.

I’ll dig deeper into it on Friday, but I’m thinking it’s going to be expensive.

Time for a 5-speed swap!

 

[KirsL]

Time for a 5-speed swap!

Well that there is part of my dilemma. I have the pedals and a bell housing but nothing else for the swap yet.
Now I could get a rebuilt nv4500 from Summit, they want 1600 for the trans and 1500 core charge which I would have to pay since I don’t have a core.


My dodge is still down. They’re making progress on the harness but it’ll be a little while before they’re done and I get it reinstalled.

Cost is definitely a factor but so is time. I need to get some prices on a built 700 and then I’ll decide. Obviously sticking with a 700 is going to be the cheapest and quickest way to go.

Going stick will be a stronger setup and I like driving stick. But I’m not sure how long the swap will take me to do.

 

[KirsL]

Looking on Phoenix transmissions ( @Greg Ducato )website they have a 700 in a K case for 2300 with the torque converter.

I think I’ll be hard pressed to do a 4500 swap anywhere close to that.

Never mind a time frame of kinda quickly.

I just can’t have two trucks down for months at a time again.

 

[campfire]

Looking on Phoenix transmissions ( @Greg Ducato )website they have a 700 in a K case for 2300 with the torque converter.

I think I’ll be hard pressed to do a 4500 swap anywhere close to that.

Have you called your local junkyards? I paid $200 for my NV4500 and $400 for my late-model harder-to-find NV3500. Definitely worth making a few phone calls before dropping $2k on a transmission. They are out there. You may well be able to buy an entire NV4500-equipped truck for $2k and make the money back selling parts.

Time-wise, the 700R4 will be faster.

If you do buy a new 700R4, Greg is definitely the guy to buy from.

 

[KirsL]

Have you called your local junkyards? I paid $200 for my NV4500 and $400 for my late-model harder-to-find NV3500. Definitely worth making a few phone calls before dropping $2k on a transmission. They are out there. You may well be able to buy an entire NV4500-equipped truck for $2k and make the money back selling parts.

Time-wise, the 700R4 will be faster.

If you do buy a new 700R4, Greg is definitely the guy to buy from.

Yep, I’m going to call around today and see what I can find.

Truck prices here in the northeast are crazy. But I’ve been looking at that route too.

It’s more the time frame that I’m worried about. I have the money currently, still have watch what I spend. I just hate projects taking months for things that be fixed kinda sorta quick.

 

[campfire]

I just hate projects taking months for things that be fixed kinda sorta quick.

Yes.

But, as a counterpoint, you've said you're doing the stick-shift conversion in the near future anyways. I'd hate to do 2 separate transmission jobs, when you have the option of getting it done right the first time. That's a waste of both time and money.

 

[6872xtc]

Yes.

But, as a counterpoint, you've said you're doing the stick-shift conversion in the near future anyways. I'd hate to do 2 separate transmission jobs, when you have the option of getting it done right the first time. That's a waste of both time and money.

But my old butt can swap a 700R4 4wd out in half of a day, flat back in the garage. He can probably do it faster. Drive it in, swap and go in less than a day. Go back to driving. Don't have to worry about how to get around while a more complicated swap happens. Then when the other truck is back going, spend some time. And no truck payment, so it's still cheaper if he sells the 700R4 later for a loss after a few months of using it. Hell, he may like it driving it and keep it long enough to get everything in line for the 5 speed swap all pretty!

 

[KirsL]

Yes.

But, as a counterpoint, you've said you're doing the stick-shift conversion in the near future anyways. I'd hate to do 2 separate transmission jobs, when you have the option of getting it done right the first time. That's a waste of both time and money.

I get 100% what you’re saying but not having a shop of my own to do that swap is the other concern. I do have a direct boss at my location and he’s good with me wrenching on stuff after hours. But I don’t want to abuse that too much.


But my old butt can swap a 700R4 4wd out in half of a day, flat back in the garage. He can probably do it faster. Drive it in, swap and go in less than a day. Go back to driving. Don't have to worry about how to get around while a more complicated swap happens. Then when the other truck is back going, spend some time. And no truck payment, so it's still cheaper if he sells the 700R4 later for a loss after a few months of using it. Hell, he may like it driving it and keep it long enough to get everything in line for the 5 speed swap all pretty!


This is what I’m leaning towards. With the lifts and a trans jack I can swap the bad for the good in a day.


And after some testing today, it definitely broke the 3rd gear clutch pack and the fluid has a slight burnt smell to it. So it’s done

 

[folkenheath]

When I did mine ten years ago about, I did a simple transfer pump, and a controller to turn it off if one tank was empty or the other full. That way if I forgot about it, that wouldn't happen.

 

[KirsL]

When I did mine ten years ago about, I did a simple transfer pump, and a controller to turn it off if one tank was empty or the other full. That way if I forgot about it, that wouldn't happen.

I thought about doing a small transfer pump, but I decided not to go that route. The leak was with a “Y” setup.

The new setup with be a valve setup. But that’s taking a back seat to getting the transmission rebuild dealt with.

 

[folkenheath]

The valve setup should fix it, I've just seen too many times where when it can pull from both tanks, it almost never pulls evenly, there is usually once slightly easier to pull from. So if you do that, it almost needs to be gravity equalized, but then you can get issues filling them all the way.

But if you are putting valves in, that should fix it, it will force it to pull(and return) from the tank you want it to.

My father has a rig where we used two pumps, and a check valve after each pump. Then a NO and NC solenoid valve on the return. That way if they stop working, they default to a certain tank. So then, with the flip of a switch, he can switch from pump fuel, to race gas, etc. Although that way is more expensive and requires two pumps and two solenoid valves.

 

[KirsL]

We’ll the trans is out. Fluid had a ton of clutch material in it.

I’ll be taking to a local guy that does mostly diesel pickups. Guy that works for me had a 4l80 done by him and knows several others with transmissions built by him that are living behind turbocharged LS engines. So a 700 for behind my lowly 6.2 should be easy.
He said about a week to build once he has it. Which would be great if it ends up being that quick.

And more photos.

Gotta be creative when working by yourself.

 

[Truckman4life]

Lol. You guys have a mobile lift but not a tall trans jack?

 

[campfire]

Why do you have a 3-bolt torque converter?