Well know we know where the heck you been! With your kids and laying heads on exhaust! I don’t wanna see em I wanna hear em!
CK5
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'83 K10 SB "L1TSBFIBBC" build
- Thread starter folkenheath
- Start date
I'd second that.
Every other engine I've ever built I consider mild, this one I do not, I speced and ordered every single part one at a time after I planned the whole engine build for months. It's a pump gas motor with mostly racing parts, but definitely not an all out spread port racing motor, and no titanium or belt drives were used in the making of this engine.
Dart Big M sportsman block
Callies magnum crank (4.75" stroke)
Callies Ultra I rods (6.700")
JE pistons (4.600 bore, 11:1 compression)
Bullet cam (.810"/.778" lift, 280/[email protected], 315/328 adv, 114 LSA)
Crower .937" solid roller lifters
ProGear dual roller timing chain with stamped steel timing cover.
RFD/Brodix conventional rectangular port heads (~380cc ports, 2.375"/1.84" valves)
7/16" dual taper pushrods
T&D shaft rockers
Edelbrock Super Victor II intake (I modified it for EFI and welded in bungs and rail mounts)
Accufab 2200 cfm 4500 style throttle body
Moroso vacuum pump
IGN1A coils
custom 36-1 crank trigger wheel
Holley Dominator ECU
The trans is still the same 4L80E OD trans I built 6 years ago or so. Although I think I need a different converter, this one is strong triple disc 10.5", but I want higher stall
The rearend is a fabricated 9" with a 9.5" 3.60 ring gear and spool with 40 spline strange axles. I am selling the 12 bolt I had in there before with the 35 spline spool.
I've had a spool in it since before I built the 4L80E for it, I had a tight eaton posi in it for years, but sometimes when I drove it to the track if the tires came out of the water box uneven one side would spin and not heat up right, so I sold the posi.
The Holley ECU controls the engine and trans and half the car at this point(both fuel pumps, water pump, both fans, etc) I have sensors all over to datalog stuff during the runs. I can even monitor transmission pressure and temp, oil temp, differential temp, etc. Temp sensors are only $10 to add one once you have the ECU, so I have them all over. With the trans having stock turbine and output speed I can even monitor converter slippage and any wet clutch slippage.
The funny thing is the paint and wheels are exactly the same my father and I did back in 2005 after 10 years of it looking bone stock, so the car looks the same on the outside, but is almost entirely new on the interior and chassis/suspension/steering. I tried to hide the chromemoly cage as best I could, tucked it up real nice.
WOW! You put a lot of thought, time, and money in this. Thanks for the detailed reply. I'd love to see (and hear) it and your truck sometime.
Thanks for the kind words everyone.
Well, these are some of the only pictures I have of the headers when I was building them...
I had cutout the inner fender openings for a set of headers I bought and returned (too low), since then I installed better trimmed fenderwells I got out of a salvage yard.
I tried to make as few of weld joints as possible from the J bends, and I also tried to keep them equal length, but wasn't as easy on the drivers side with the steering shaft in the way. I would not sacrifice flow for equal length (several tight bends are worse than unequal length)
This was before I fixed the rusty floor and braced and painted the rest of the chassis....
After that I welded them all up. Started with the flange being careful not to weld where the bolt needs to go...
Then welded the inner surface...
Then belt sand the surface smooth with 120 grit..
Then I cut off the SPD merge collector at the merge since I couldn't fit 4.5" exhaust pipes, and I converted it to 5" oval tubing (about 3" tall by 6" wide). I only did the middle vertical weld at this point, and I ended up cutting off the factory weld on the right since I wasn't happy with it, and going straight to the oval tube..
View media item 31979
Here is what they looked like all welded up before I ever started it...I was very happy with the way they turned out. You can see in the previous pictures after you run them the raw stainless turns tan, kind of like titanium almost.
Well, these are some of the only pictures I have of the headers when I was building them...
I had cutout the inner fender openings for a set of headers I bought and returned (too low), since then I installed better trimmed fenderwells I got out of a salvage yard.
I tried to make as few of weld joints as possible from the J bends, and I also tried to keep them equal length, but wasn't as easy on the drivers side with the steering shaft in the way. I would not sacrifice flow for equal length (several tight bends are worse than unequal length)
This was before I fixed the rusty floor and braced and painted the rest of the chassis....
After that I welded them all up. Started with the flange being careful not to weld where the bolt needs to go...
Then welded the inner surface...
Then belt sand the surface smooth with 120 grit..
Then I cut off the SPD merge collector at the merge since I couldn't fit 4.5" exhaust pipes, and I converted it to 5" oval tubing (about 3" tall by 6" wide). I only did the middle vertical weld at this point, and I ended up cutting off the factory weld on the right since I wasn't happy with it, and going straight to the oval tube..
View media item 31979
Here is what they looked like all welded up before I ever started it...I was very happy with the way they turned out. You can see in the previous pictures after you run them the raw stainless turns tan, kind of like titanium almost.
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Here are some vids from some test runs...
too long of burnout (trying to purge the bottle quick), the rev limiter is also lower RPM on the burnout since I do burnouts starting in 2nd gear to protect the sprag. (I don't need 7500 RPM on a burnout)
View media item 31980
all motor launch..(followed by me accidentally shifting straight from 1st to 3rd if you listen...)I keep the front suspension tight so no wheelies. Although my father says with my "pu$$y converter" it launches weak anyway, ha ha.
View media item 31981
cockpit view with a small 100 shot of N20 (I launch in manual low then bump it to 3rd and let the computer shift here). You can also hear I tried locking the converter up at 110 MPH, which was too early and right after 3rd gear shift.
View media item 31982
too long of burnout (trying to purge the bottle quick), the rev limiter is also lower RPM on the burnout since I do burnouts starting in 2nd gear to protect the sprag. (I don't need 7500 RPM on a burnout)
View media item 31980
all motor launch..(followed by me accidentally shifting straight from 1st to 3rd if you listen...)I keep the front suspension tight so no wheelies. Although my father says with my "pu$$y converter" it launches weak anyway, ha ha.
View media item 31981
cockpit view with a small 100 shot of N20 (I launch in manual low then bump it to 3rd and let the computer shift here). You can also hear I tried locking the converter up at 110 MPH, which was too early and right after 3rd gear shift.
View media item 31982
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Very nice job. Looks like you can get to all the spark plugs with out too many problems. My 2 1/8 headers are 2 piece with similar routing as your custom made headers.
My crappy old picture, still hooking things up.
My crappy old picture, still hooking things up.
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I take it that's your Chevelle? Sweet. Dual quad crossram, interesting. You plan to take it to the track for testing?
I couldn't even get 2 1/8" for my gbody, only 2". And yes, I can get every plug out with a stubby ratchet and 3" extension, some you don't use the extension and just snap the ratchet right on the plug socket. But that wasn't an accident, I had the ratchet out when I was making the upper halves, its easier to change the plugs on this than when I had the small block in it with 1 5/8 primaries. My other hurdle was the midplate, that made it a little more difficult to squeeze the 2 3/8" primaries(at that point) through there. Although not having motor mounts on the block also made it easier up front on the drivers side where the steering shaft snakes through to the rack and pinion, so it was a plus and a minus.
The individual primaries make it super easy to install them, I can have them in or out in 15 minutes about, don't need to remove the starter or oil filter or anything, just pull the exhaust and collector off, and then each primary tube slides right out if you do it in the correct order.
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In the process of making the headers I also did a little test, some people say it don't matter if you purge inside the stainless when you TIG it, some people say its mandatory or it will crack and break. I purge welded every single primary tube. But just to see what would happen I welded a flange lap weld (a butt weld would be worse) both with and without purge, and most of the welds on the primaries are butt welds where approaching zero gap is critical for a good butt weld(this was very time consuming crawling in and out from under the car just to tweak the tube with the belt sander 10 thousandths or so).
So although they may or may not crack over time without purge, they surely look like crap and hinder flow a little without it.
Anyway, this is the inside of the tube without purge...
This is the inside of the tube with argon purge..
So although they may or may not crack over time without purge, they surely look like crap and hinder flow a little without it.
Anyway, this is the inside of the tube without purge...
This is the inside of the tube with argon purge..
beags86
Eastbound and Down
In the process of making the headers I also did a little test, some people say it don't matter if you purge inside the stainless when you TIG it, some people say its mandatory or it will crack and break. I purge welded every single primary tube. But just to see what would happen I welded a flange lap weld (a butt weld would be worse) both with and without purge, and most of the welds on the primaries are butt welds where approaching zero gap is critical for a good butt weld(this was very time consuming crawling in and out from under the car just to tweak the tube with the belt sander 10 thousandths or so).
So although they may or may not crack over time without purge, they surely look like crap and hinder flow a little without it.
Anyway, this is the inside of the tube without purge...
This is the inside of the tube with argon purge..
Cool you did a test. Most guys just go with " well so and so told me and he's a good welder" or some comments of the like.
Nice to see someone take a more analytical approach for themselves.
Haha. As you found out, you absolutely need a backpurge.
I recently just bought a backpurge foam plug kit for a LS6.0 swap in a 87 monte carlo ss, (my buddy is building). When he's ready I'll be building a set of stainless headers for him. I hope they turn out as nice as yours.
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beags86
Eastbound and Down
Yes, on my Chevelle. The motor is out again due to reversion (there were fuel clouds above the carbs). Once running again I do want to take it to the track sometime and see what it will do.
Thanks for the kind words beags.
Whenever I get so much conflicting information on a subject, I usually try to figure out the answer myself. Yes the backpurge seems pretty critical, I also noticed it welded easier with the backpurge, flowed better. And it was a lot easier to weld the 16 gauge exhaust tubing after welding the 18 ga primary tubing.
I just used blue masking tape and cardboard to make my purge kit, well that and a dual ball valve regulator.
I have to ask, why would you build a set of headers you can buy off the shelf? As many hours as it takes to do it right (although I'm sure I could do it faster if I did it again, its not like it would be half the time or anything), if I could buy off the shelf headers I would of. You won't really save money doing it yourself vs an off the shelf set, (the stainless J bends are expensive). Although I'm sure you'll figure it out once you know the cost of the 8 J bends and flanges.
https://www.holley.com/products/ls_...omponents/exhaust_systems/parts/70101305-RHKR
https://www.holley.com/products/ls_...omponents/exhaust_systems/parts/70101306-RHKR
Although I do admit its pretty rewarding if you take your time, of all the things I made on that car, and I made a lot of things, the headers are my favorite.
So what is your plan to fix that? Is compression check ok? When does it do it, at part throttle, WOT, is it all the time or just under certain conditions? Whats your ignition timing and bore,stroke,heads,cam?
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The fix is a different cam. It acts like it is rich and fouls the plugs, don't know how many times I changed jets in the carbs. We changed out my Mallory distributor, coil, and box for a friends MSD distributor, coil, and 7al2 box with no improvement. Then we pulled the cross ram off and installed a Weiand team G and Holley 850 and kept the MSD ignition with no real change. It is a .060 over 454 (4.310x 4.00). Compression should be close to 10 1/2 to 1 (didn't cc anything after we cut the intake valve pocket deeper for valve clearance) Heads are cast iron rectangular port with light porting (were on a comp. dragster). Cam is a solid flat tappet .588/.620 lift 276/284 @.050 if I remember correctly. We talked to Howards cams about what is happening and have a solid roller picked out. Now I need $$$ in the budget for everything to go with it (along with other projects).
beags86
Eastbound and Down
That's a great question. One I'll have to explain in depth for it to make sense.
This buddy I speak of is a newly acquired friend. He seems to be a great guy. (Well he's a g body guy so he couldn't be bad right?)
He's doing a 6.0 swap with a 6L80E.
It's a really clean car and he's doing a nice job, but he had alot of work done before I met him.
Currently, he has a set of ( I think Kooks) stainless F-body headers. They don't fit and will need to be cut apart and refit to the chassis to work. Also they have some dents that he wants to replace with tubes.
So it seems that it shouldn't be a complete scratch build. But I know from experience it won't be as easy as it may seem.
Now the second part.
He wants to learn how to weld. And I offered to help him learn. He wants to use this project as a starting point to help him learn. Probably not really the best beginners probably but I can't blame him for wanting to learn. I never blame ANYONE with the right additude!
Now the third part. (my purchase)
As you know I am in the trade, as I have met a few great people, as part of this I happen to know a few rather high ranking people at airgas. Which means I just so happen to get some pretty great deals on welding stuff. And since my longer term plans involve a Oldsmobile and hopefully some hairdryers it made sense to me to buy some back purge plugs. (Even if I never achieve those goals) Nothing wrong with tape, I have done it that way myself. But it was just something I wanted to add to my arsenal of tools.
Here's a couple pictures of his ride.
I was going to say that sounds strange and more like tuning. And you talked to a cam company and they recommended a new cam, something seems a little off. But I guess you already tried an MSD box and also a single plane intake (would of been my first two recommendations), and that is a rather wide cam with a lot of overlap for a 454 if its really [email protected]. What was your ignition timing set at? What idle timing and how fast did it ramp up? Did it do it a lot or just at certain throttles or gears or temps etc?
Sounds like you are already into it pretty deep so I'm sure you'll get it figured out, I'm just curious since that's a strange problem you have there.
beags,
It makes more sense since you have a set he already bought and he probably doesn't want to spend more money on a different set, but it reminds me of a project I worked on for a long time family friend before I tore the regal apart. I helped him build his Jeep(he calls it a Jeep but the only thing left is the grill and windshield frame) since he doesn't have a welder or fab equipment (he does have a LOT of mechanics tools though). He bought an aftermarket frame for his fiberglass bodied Jeep, and we made a custom coilover suspension for it, dual triangulated 4 link in the back, and a hybrid radius arm/3 link in the front. The front is a radius arm on one side with only a 3rd link on the other. It has a stock shortblock LQ4 6.0, but we put in a different cam, LS3 heads, intake, etc.
Anyway, he bought a set of used stainless headers (I think for an F body) we were going to try and make work since no one makes long tubes for a Jeep with an LS at the time. Anyway, I cut one side of those headers off and quickly realized it was going to be more work than I expected.
My point is, if you haven't cut them yet you two may be better off selling them and buying the correct set. Like you mentioned, it will likely be more involved than you are planning.
In the end we made him a dual 3" stainless stainless exhaust that connected to some shortie single turbo headers. Not the best choice but at least they were not restrictive like most shortie headers that dump into a tiny collector to hook to the factory downpipes.
It makes more sense since you have a set he already bought and he probably doesn't want to spend more money on a different set, but it reminds me of a project I worked on for a long time family friend before I tore the regal apart. I helped him build his Jeep(he calls it a Jeep but the only thing left is the grill and windshield frame) since he doesn't have a welder or fab equipment (he does have a LOT of mechanics tools though). He bought an aftermarket frame for his fiberglass bodied Jeep, and we made a custom coilover suspension for it, dual triangulated 4 link in the back, and a hybrid radius arm/3 link in the front. The front is a radius arm on one side with only a 3rd link on the other. It has a stock shortblock LQ4 6.0, but we put in a different cam, LS3 heads, intake, etc.
Anyway, he bought a set of used stainless headers (I think for an F body) we were going to try and make work since no one makes long tubes for a Jeep with an LS at the time. Anyway, I cut one side of those headers off and quickly realized it was going to be more work than I expected.
My point is, if you haven't cut them yet you two may be better off selling them and buying the correct set. Like you mentioned, it will likely be more involved than you are planning.
In the end we made him a dual 3" stainless stainless exhaust that connected to some shortie single turbo headers. Not the best choice but at least they were not restrictive like most shortie headers that dump into a tiny collector to hook to the factory downpipes.
I've always purge welded my exhaust systems but then in my old job we did that with all of the process piping we did. It just makes it easier because don't have to be worried about burn through. One pass and you've got 100% penetration.In the process of making the headers I also did a little test, some people say it don't matter if you purge inside the stainless when you TIG it, some people say its mandatory or it will crack and break. I purge welded every single primary tube. But just to see what would happen I welded a flange lap weld (a butt weld would be worse) both with and without purge, and most of the welds on the primaries are butt welds where approaching zero gap is critical for a good butt weld(this was very time consuming crawling in and out from under the car just to tweak the tube with the belt sander 10 thousandths or so).
So although they may or may not crack over time without purge, they surely look like crap and hinder flow a little without it.
Anyway, this is the inside of the tube without purge...
This is the inside of the tube with argon purge..
My friend I am working with on this has been building stock to race motors for 50+ years. He had a small block with reversion issues (his super gas roadster). The distributor was sent out to be set up/re-curved for my application and I know we adjusted the timing many times while tuning (don't remember the specifics). The reversion seems to happen all the time. Trans is a Richmond 4+1 5 speed 1st= 3.27 gear 5th= 1 to 1 and 4.10 posi 12 bolt
Nice car!
Thanks, bought it in '95 when I was a Junior in High School.
